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Refugees (1 Viewer)

Counterfeit

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Ok, so what is your understanding on refugees in Australia.

Who do you believe they are?

Where do you think they have come from?

Why do you think they left their homeland to get here? And why Australia of all places?

Do you think the government treats them fairly?

Do you understand the TPV policy? Have you even heard of it?

Do you know any refugees?

What is your idea of the steriotypical refugee?

Do you feel sorry for them, think they are unfaily treated?

Do you link refugees to asylum seekers?

Do they make you angry? Do you feel they jump the que and are invading your country?

ALL opinions are appreciated.
 

azzie

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i feel sorry for them and think they aren’t fairly treated. then again if you look at the two sides its hard to decide which holds more merit:

either that the refugees have arrived in this nation and we are unable to process them, do not know of their past records and are unsure exactly where they have come from. to stop them from being a threat to society we keep them within an area which is especially reserved to keep them segregated from the community

or they have done nothing wrong and are seeking a new life in this country. segregating them from the rest of the community only prolongs assimilation and keeps them from learning vital skills which they could contribute to our labour force, as well traumatising them and their family.
 

Iron

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azzie said:
i feel sorry for them and think they aren’t fairly treated. then again if you look at the two sides its hard to decide which holds more merit:

either that the refugees have arrived in this nation and we are unable to process them, do not know of their past records and are unsure exactly where they have come from. to stop them from being a threat to society we keep them within an area which is especially reserved to keep them segregated from the community

or they have done nothing wrong and are seeking a new life in this country. segregating them from the rest of the community only prolongs assimilation and keeps them from learning vital skills which they could contribute to our labour force, as well traumatising them and their family.
No you fool - It's a trap! Get out before it's too late - save yourself!
 

transcendent

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what azzie said. my parents were refugees having been stuck in a thailand detention centre for a bit waiting to come to Australia. but at least they were treated relatively better then the current refugees are being treated here in Australia. they should be released into a monitored community. none of this detention centre bullshit unless they are a threat.
 

supercharged

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transcendent said:
what azzie said. my parents were refugees having been stuck in a thailand detention centre for a bit waiting to come to Australia. but at least they were treated relatively better then the current refugees are being treated here in Australia. they should be released into a monitored community. none of this detention centre bullshit unless they are a threat.
What was wrong with Thailand?
 

transcendent

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i didn't want to pry. Thailand was alright, just they didn't have alot of food and a lack of privacy due to lack of space and resources. at least they didn't get treated like terrorist. everyone was escaping the war. Thailand would've been a sanctuary in comparison. Australia would've been heaven. my mum chose to skip the first trip which was to America and come here instead. that's why I feel like Australia is my home. cause this is where I want to be and where my parents want to be.
 

Valeroso

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Here we go:

Who do you believe they are?
People fleeing developing countries to enter developed countries for many reasons.

Why do you think they left their homeland to get here? And why Australia of all places?
Why not Australia? As an affluent and education based society, there is more international recognition. They just want a better life!

Do you think the government treats them fairly?
NO! The Government treats them like animals. It shocks me that a nation as educated as us can get away with committing these serious breaches of international human rights. Such a stupid rigid system that is failing.

Do you know any refugees?
Yes, friends parents, etc. This nation is BUILT on immigrants and refugees, yet now the overall perception has become one where we are greedy and don't want anymore. I think everyone in Australia would know at least one.

Do you feel sorry for them, think they are unfaily treated?
Yes, definitely unfairly treated; they went through so much, to get so little. On the news, some Albanian man was forced to pay $20,000 for staying in a detention centre (?) and since he hasn't been granted a Working Visa, he can't even try and attempt to make the money to pay it off. Again, like I said, such a horrible horrible way to treat human beings; this rigidity is stupid and unfair.

Do you link refugees to asylum seekers?
Refugees flee their nations due to several factors such as duress, but both the need for asylum can also be linked. But so what? If these boat people had come from Sweden, there would be less hostility towards them.

Do they make you angry? Do you feel they jump the que and are invading your country?
Absolutely not. They are entitled to the exact same rights as anyone else. This nations past was founded on refugees and migrants; why the fuck can't our future be based on them? What are we so afraid of? Its not like there is a MILLION of them, and most of them are innocent human beings that want to live a decent life, of which they are being deprived. E.g The Qasim guy who spent 8 years in a Detention Centre? What the FUCK?! Now India won't accept him, Australia won't accept him; so hes STATELESS. This stupid immigration policy again is largely inneffective and inhumane.
 

White Rabbit

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transcendent said:
what azzie said. my parents were refugees having been stuck in a thailand detention centre for a bit waiting to come to Australia. but at least they were treated relatively better then the current refugees are being treated here in Australia. they should be released into a monitored community. none of this detention centre bullshit unless they are a threat.
But how do you know which ones are a threat without any background information? People will slip through the cracks in a monitered community, and those who slip through will be the ones we need to be concered about. I don't doubt most refugees do just want a better life/are escaping war and/or persecution, but we don't have a system in regards to community release which will work effectivly.

I think detention condititions should be improved, and the process sped up to dramatically cut time spent in detention, but wheres the funing going to come from? What would be sacrificed in order to get the better conditions?
 

supercharged

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About the whole refugee Vs Sydney Airport threat. Refugees probably wouldn't be perceived as such a threat if they didn't come from islamic countries. People don't fear the the afgans for no reason, being the homebase for bin laden, taliban et al.

btw. why do strict muslim refugees want to come to Australia? Wouldn't they be more at home in an islamic society? Flee Afganistan, and go to Yemen or Pakistan instead.
 
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supercharged

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Asquithian said:
I think you will find that when Howard used in the 1998 election he was evoking the same thing he used against Viet boatpeople in the late 70s. I don't think Australiua cared at the time whether the people were asian or arab. The point was they were not white.
Weren't the Kosovo refugee's white?
 

Rafy

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Remember there is a difference between Refugees and asylum seekers.

In Australia proven Refugees are allowed TPVs. They are also not locked in detention centers. Those in the centers are Asylum seekers who are here illegally. They must prove that they are indeed genuine refugees.

Of course the time it takes to prove this could be dramatically reduced....But the refugees themselves more often enought lengthen the process...
 

Rafy

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A ramble i wrote last year on the issue:

The refugee issue has raged in the past few years, with heated debate on the specifics of our immigration policy. The key point of contention is the subject of illegal immigrants and their fate. It should however be noted, that the issue is wider than this small section of the matter. Refugees enter Australia through both lawful and illegitimate means. There is however, a distinct difference with the treatment of these groups.

Australia, being a signatory to the United Nations charter, has the responsibility to take a share of international refugees. The country does fulfil this obligation. Compared to our population, Australia allows in more than its fair share of refugees through legal means. It is however the issue of illegal immigrants that is at the heart of debate.

They come the hundred in leaky boats, having paid thousand of dollars to so called “people smugglers” to get into Australia. Under the Liberal government’s ‘Pacific solution’, they are intercepted and sent to detention centres in Papua New Guinea, and Nauru. These people should not yet be referred to as refugees at this stage. They are merely ‘asylum seekers’ seeking the protection of Australia. The determination of wether they are indeed refugees is made by the United Nations on Nauru. This is the overlooked benefit of the ‘Pacific solution’. In addition to providing a deterrent to others wanting to journey to Australia, it also allows a respected third party organisation (The UN) to make the refugee determination. If they are found to be genuine refugees they are allowed to enter Australia on a Temporary Protection Visa (TPV).

Those found to be not refugees are sent back to their homelands. They are only kept in detention if they decide to appeal the status resolution through the court system. It must be noted that the majority of those held in detention in both mainland Australia and external detention centres, have been determined NOT to be refugees by the UN. They are simply pursuing the matter through the legal system. These non-refugees can leave at any time. These facts have been neglected by the machinations of the opposition parties as well as certain interest groups in order to score political and social gains against the government.

The question remains, should we allow these illegal asylum seekers who have been found not to be genuine refugees, into the public domain? In the current climate of international terrorism this would be imprudent. It would generate a gaping tear in the security measures of the country. I would concede that this is a largely overrated threat but no chances can be taken by governments when dealing with public security. Criminals as well as certain undesirables could be also present. If these people wish to enter the country and they have found to be free of persecution in their home country, they should apply for residence through the appropriate legal channels and cease the practice of queue-jumping. On the subject of women and children, the government has already made steps to release these people into foster homes in communities surrounding the facilities. On the ABC’s Enough Rope program, the Federal Minister for Immigration and Multicultural affairs, Amanda Vanstone, was interviewed and she gave the following response to a Denton question:


ANDREW DENTON: How do you justify children behind razor wire and detention?
AMANDA VANSTONE: That, I think, is a very difficult issue. No-one would like to see kids in detention. And I find it difficult because...for a number of reasons. Let's deal with the substantive ones - no-one would like to see children in detention. But if you let the children out, you can't do that without letting the parents out. So if you let the parents out... These are the people who are judged not to be refugees, incidentally, who don't accept a 'no' and are challenging it. Then you have a policy that says to people smugglers, "Look, if you come here with kids it'll be OK - you will be out in the Australian community very quickly." And I strongly believe that that's an absolute green light to people smugglers. So it's one of the situations where you don't want either but you have to have one or the other.
The government’s so called ‘hard-line’ policy on this issue has worked to effectively diminish the number of ‘boat people’ entering the country. The reality is that such a strategy has proved effective and has resulted in a scarcity of such people. The benefits of this have been immeasurable in assisting the lives of these people. Firstly it prevents them separating with their life savings to journey to this country only to be sent back. Secondly, it saves lives: These are leaky boats (many of which have sank)

On the other side of this debate, Zelman Cowen in his article in The Age says “We have an obligation, as part of the international community to behave with magnanimity”. Sure, it is all well and good to be fair to these people and we are - when they arrive legally. We as a nation cannot encourage people to come by boat. It would only be aiding the people smugglers. Most of the arguments from those opposing the policy talk of the government lacking compassion, and empathy. To show such feelings to illegal immigrants would be the government aiding a crime. The government shows much sympathy to legal refugees.

The Government is not oppressing the refugees - They are granted TPVs. Those that are not refugees are free to go home (at Australian taxpayer expense). Illegally entering a country without the correct documents is a crime. If somebody committed a crime in other situations you would expect them to be reprimanded. So why the double standard? The detention centre inhabitants have been found to been NOT persecuted in their homeland and have attempted to enter illegally anyway.

When dealing with this contentious issue, we must focus on the raw facts of the debate and not succumb to the usual spin on the issue as presented by the media. The people in the detention centres have been determined NOT to be genuine refugees by the neutrally positioned United Nations. They have breached Australian law by entering the country illegally and if reasonable action is not taken it would be an invitation to others to invade our sovereign land without our control. We take in our fair share of genuine refugees and will continue to. The government however cannot condone illegal activities.
 

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