religious justification of sex (2 Viewers)

[Lhyviathan]

thanks lhyviathan. how about u read my first post again! i never said she justified it either but Genesys claimed:

I didnt assume anything like that. my post was loaded with sacasm. it was practically oozing out.

BTW, "he" is actually a "she"...smooth...

Go tempco!

*reads again*

You know, you actually make sense if you read:

Why do YOU assume that I am justifying murder either?

... as...

Why, do YOU assume that I am justifying murder either?

Perhaps it was your intention to include that comma? Or were you planning on making no sense, and contradicting yourself in subsequent posts?

 

[The_highwayman]

the second. punctuation has never been my stongest point

 

[littlebinzy]

I love all the complete ignorance in this thread... hehe it makes me laugh.

Christians who justify sex are silly. People who write religion off are silly. Christians who expect people to understand their point of view are silly.

But most of all, people who start a topic to do with a religion on a forum and expect it to not turn into a debate about whether religion is right or not are silly.

 

[hipPo3]

I love all the complete ignorance in this thread... hehe it makes me laugh.

Christians who justify sex are silly. People who write religion off are silly. Christians who expect people to understand their point of view are silly.

But most of all, people who start a topic to do with a religion on a forum and expect it to not turn into a debate about whether religion is right or not are silly.

I Yam SoFa KinG WeeTar Ted ... duuuuuh *drool

 

[Genesys]

so, you're basically saying that you want to pick and choose parts of christianity that suit your own needs, and you justify it by falling back to the "god loves all of us and wants us all to show our love"?

wouldn't that mean we should forgive and forget crimes commited by people, such as robbery, assault, embezzlement, etc?

in that sense, i'd consider someone who choose not to engage in premarital sex a "better" christian than yourself in that regard, since he/she is willing to sacrifice a certain desire for the sake of god.

I never assumed that your argument was justifying murder, I was simply defending my own and reaffirming that I never justified it. I don't pick and choose parts of my faith. I accept almost all the fundamental doctrines of the Catholic Church, however I believe that many parts of the faith have failed to change with the context. Now I acknowledge that it is important that the basic principles stay the same, and I am not saying that I would change this belief. I just don't think that whether or not someone has sex before marriage is a real reflection of their worth as a Christian. I think that some things about Christianity have to change. However I have a deep appreciation for my faith and I respect those who adhere to it strictly. I myself am a virgin. My grandfather was a deacon and there are very few doctrinal beliefs that I don't accept. This being one of the two. I don't think faith means that I have to accept everything blindly and I would hope that God can appreciate the fact that he gave me a brain to question things.

 

[The_highwayman]

I love all the complete ignorance in this thread... hehe it makes me laugh.

Christians who justify sex are silly. People who write religion off are silly. Christians who expect people to understand their point of view are silly.

But most of all, people who start a topic to do with a religion on a forum and expect it to not turn into a debate about whether religion is right or not are silly.

It's not the world that has the problem. It is you who has a problem with the world.

Religion deserves to be the topic of healthy debate...particularly religion in regards to premarital sex in this society. Wanting to avoid that is silly.

 

[tempco]

I never assumed that your argument was justifying murder, I was simply defending my own and reaffirming that I never justified it.

i'm assuming you're referring to The_highwayman.

I don't pick and choose parts of my faith. I accept almost all the fundamental doctrines of the Catholic Church, however I believe that many parts of the faith have failed to change with the context. Now I acknowledge that it is important that the basic principles stay the same, and I am not saying that I would change this belief. I just don't think that whether or not someone has sex before marriage is a real reflection of their worth as a Christian. I think that some things about Christianity have to change. However I have a deep appreciation for my faith and I respect those who adhere to it strictly. I myself am a virgin. My grandfather was a deacon and there are very few doctrinal beliefs that I don't accept. This being one of the two. I don't think faith means that I have to accept everything blindly and I would hope that God can appreciate the fact that he gave me a brain to question things.

and what context do we live in today? almost everything revolves around sex. succumbing to the pressures of society has become a norm... so hey, i guess having sex with someone i really, really love is ok.

what littlebinzy stated before is quite accurate - as people who subscribe to a certain religion, do we not accept the fact that god is omniscient? stepping even further back, don't you blindly accept the fact that god exists (well, unless you can empirically prove that god exists )?

i'm not sure why the concept of abstinence from pre-marital sex has to be "revolutionised". casual sex has only served to discard the sanctity of marriage, break up families (because sexual promiscuity is normalised), increase diseases transmitted by casual sex, increase the amount of funding required for abortions, adoption services, safe-sex campaigns, and other countless effects on society as a whole. those who justify casual sex usually have selfish reasons - "oh, because i want to", "it's my choice", "i love him/her". well, secular society is all about pleasure anyway.

 

[Epiphany]

is this debate still going? come on people, no-one's going to change anyones mind here... waste of finger energy.

 

[tempco]

is this debate still going? come on people, no-one's going to change anyones mind here... waste of finger energy.

if everyone thought like that, we'd all still be cavemen.

 

[Genesys]

Apologies, I was refering to The_highwayman.

Yes I do accept a belief in God without emperical evidence, however that doesn't mean that I haven't questioned it and researched to make sure that it is a belief that I accept.

Essentially what I am criticising is the need of some to criticise the moral judgements of others in regard to their faith to reaffirm their own status as so called "good Christians".

I don't feel that in today's context....ie) The ever increasing divorce rates and disregard for the institution of marriage which you mentioned, that marriage ensures the sanctity of the act any better than a real, CONSCIOUS ( emphasis on that word because of its importance in the context of Christian beliefs) decision to engage in the act of sex with someone that you truly love and have made a commitment to.

 

[joeylike2hiphop]

well......

im catholic and i think that the sex before marriage is there for good reason however not being virgin myself i guessed i sorta stuffed that rule. what im trying to say is that you should treasure yourself and your virginity and do the deed when you think is right.dont go out there and have casual sex like one night stands and shit, in my opinion casual sex is wrong, but if you do then no offense. if you choose to wait till after marriage then good luck to you!

 

[starbaaa]

I just don't think that whether or not someone has sex before marriage is a real reflection of their worth as a Christian.

So what would be a real reflection of someones worth as a Christian?

 

[Genesys]

There are two things which are at the heart of all Christian beliefs,
Firstly... Do unto others as you would have them do unto you
and secondly...Love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul

By following these things and practicing the beliefs of Christian Humanism...essentially of the dignity of the human person (which relates to the issue of sex), of the common good or solidarity and of subsidiarity.

That would be criteria that I would consider for the judgement of a good Christian...however I wouldn't presume to judge them, otherwise I would be a hypocrite wouldn't I? God has the final say anyway right.

 

[tempco]

Apologies, I was refering to The_highwayman.

no problem.

Yes I do accept a belief in God without emperical evidence, however that doesn't mean that I haven't questioned it and researched to make sure that it is a belief that I accept.

true. in this day and age, however, it is the belief that "casual sex is ok" that needs to be questioned, rather than the the belief in abstinence. ask yourself - would you be questioned (by society as a whole) more if you thought pre-marital sex was acceptable, or whether pre-marital sex is unacceptable?

Essentially what I am criticising is the need of some to criticise the moral judgements of others in regard to their faith to reaffirm their own status as so called "good Christians".

i'd criticise those people as well. they're insecure and should seriously rethink their own beliefs, rather than judge that of others.

I don't feel that in today's context....ie) The ever increasing divorce rates and disregard for the institution of marriage which you mentioned, that marriage ensures the sanctity of the act any better than a real, CONSCIOUS ( emphasis on that word because of its importance in the context of Christian beliefs) decision to engage in the act of sex with someone that you truly love and have made a commitment to.

that's true to an extent. i mean, the affair rate of women in america is 70% (thank you, desperate housewives). for the majority of people, marriage is a sham, and people sure treat it that way. the quality of the marriage depends on the people involved. most people aren't prepared to get married during their 20s and such because that's the timee when you're supposed to have "fun" and that commitment is the last thing on your mind... the attitudes are so prevalent that even those who are married in their 20s (and 30s, even) are quite likely to cheat on their spouses.

i can't say for sure, since i don't know many married non-muslims, but within the muslim community, marriage and family is of paramount importance. my sister (21) is getting married this december to a 23 year old man. i'm not sure many people are willing to commit at that age, but in the muslim community, it's quite common. i can bet my life on it that divorces, affairs and such are less common in the muslim community because of their attitudes. and these aren't oppressive, one-sided marriages - the majority of them are healthy, fruitful marriages with many, many kids (pretty cute kids too ).

it's all about attitude.

 

[Genesys]

Well I respect that.

Originally this thread wasn't questioning casual sex as such, it was asking how Christians who have sex before marriage can justify that. I don't agree with casual sex, I have seen first hand how it can lead to problems with issues such a teen pregnancy and STD's. I think that is completely different, and I think that those people may not be as in touch with their Christian beliefs as others.

 

[hipPo3]

There are two things which are at the heart of all Christian beliefs,
Firstly... Do unto others as you would have them do unto you
and secondly...Love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul

By following these things and practicing the beliefs of Christian Humanism...essentially of the dignity of the human person (which relates to the issue of sex), of the common good or solidarity and of subsidiarity.

That would be criteria that I would consider for the judgement of a good Christian...however I wouldn't presume to judge them, otherwise I would be a hypocrite wouldn't I? God has the final say anyway right.

BAhHAhHAhA... contradictory hipocracy
Why are u trying to e-convert ? .. there are those that dont beleive and those that do, trying to pursuade one side to the other is a called converting. U dont me to try and convert u to another stupid religion do u ? ..

Never put Christianity and Humanism together .. they arent the same thing and they dont belong together ... ur saying everyones Christian by doing that. Humans DONT loose thier dignity by having sex before marraige, only the Christian extremists do because it is what they believe in.

What the hell are u poeple argueing about ?!?!
Every religion has some sort of religious justification for sex ..

 

[tempco]

well, yes different, but still along the same lines. in my perspective anyway.

 

[tempco]

Humans DONT loose thier dignity by having sex before marraige, only the Christian extremists do because it is what they believe in.

so it doesn't matter at all if you're your boyfriend's 9th?

 

[Genesys]

BAhHAhHAhA... contradictory hipocracy
Why are u trying to e-convert ? .. there are those that dont beleive and those that do, trying to pursuade one side to the other is a called converting. U dont me to try and convert u to another stupid religion do u ? ..

Never put Christianity and Humanism together .. they arent the same thing and they dont belong together ... ur saying everyones Christian by doing that. Humans DONT loose thier dignity by having sex before marraige, only the Christian extremists do because it is what they believe in.

What the hell are u poeple argueing about ?!?!
Every religion has some sort of religious justification for sex ..

Hahahhaa you obviously missed the whole point of that. I am not trying to be all evangelical...No way. I am saying that I don't believe and they can have their beliefs, but they don't have to challenge my Christianity because I don't agree with everything that is written in the Bible. The Church is wrong sometimes....eg) mary magdalene.

Also, I specifically said CHRISTIAN HUMANISM...which is different to simple humanism...and is at the heart of all the Churches social practice...in regards to things like justification of war, morals for coporate business and social welfare. Obviously you don't know the difference between the two. So as for your argument about me inferring that everyone was Christian by making reference to that, it is completely flawed and I made no such claim...try again.

I don't think anything else needs be said

 

[hipPo3]

so it doesn't matter at all if you're your boyfriend's 9th?

9th ? .. u mean 9yrs old ? .. well we do have our laws to prevent pedos
Why do u think pedos like lil boys ? .. do u think they loose thier dignity having sex with them ? .. if they do, then why do they do it ?

U know, we do have the power to control ourselves.. we have depended on control since the dawn of civilization.