Reply From Board About Crime Section (1 Viewer)

santaslayer

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From experience, most people get quite a reasonable mark when the Board stuffs a particular question up. :p

The higher achievers are probably the ones who should be complaining.
 

skimbo88

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thankgoodness i'm not the only one

Smartie87 said:
any one else find this to be bullshit? i applied as much of the syllabus content as i could but not enuf for 19 marks. its not fair either way to ask a question so pathetic as that when clearly, there could be advantages held by ppl who actually studied this for their special study
I just found out at about 11pm tonight .... wow so it wasn't just me who found that crime section so hard oh shite....! I just fricken hope that my uai will scale up wise... if not ... what should i do??? Seriously the BOS ...what are you guys thinkin??? Firstly the English Paper, then maths then what LEGAL STUDIES...ur bull crappin me!!!!...and now just checked the syllabus... any f***in thing to do with juvenial crime .... what kind of crime paper was that...!!!
 
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Yep, I totally knew it was a mass produced reply lol
I got it, and it's funny how its not even a specified response for concerned students...
disgraceful I tell ya...:mad:

what happened to the petition?
 
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Smartie87

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ok everyone is still whinging... ive started a petition thread, where i want a list of names and skools or something to identify you, and i am going to put in all the work needed to get some action, but no one is including themselves. we all want something done and i know there is more than '15' people, as the board claims, out there who want something done, so this is your chance!!!
 

Kirika

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the petition is here! go to the thread and wirte down ur name and high school ( or instant message them if u want privacy)! come on people if u dont do anything about it the board will think we LIKED the question..... start writing names!
 

Smartie87

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I Just Spoke To A Lady From The Marking Centre At The Board Of Studies And She Said That Only A Small Amount Of People Have Complained, And That The Question Was Included To Distiguish Between The Better Students, And Those That Are Only Average!!!!

Get Signing That Petition People, So We Can Turn This 'small' Group Of Complaints Into Full Scale!!!!
 

goan_crazy

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Where I emailed
I got a reply with an attachment which is exactly what someone else
the board has obviously prepared a response to send everyone.
The document was called legal studies update


Update on the 2005 HSC Legal Studies examination

There has been a mixed response to the Legal Studies paper: some people are indicating that part of Question 17 was too specific and may not have been covered by all students.

Some students may not have encountered the groups specifically referred to in the question, but could have answered the question by relating their knowledge, with the aid of the extract provided as stimulus, to the groups in the question.

The aim of the examination is to allow students of all abilities to demonstrate what they know. If it appears that a question in an examination has prevented this, then the Board takes this very seriously, and puts a number of procedures in place.

The Chief Examiner and Supervisor of Marking will consider students’ responses and if necessary modify the marking guidelines to ensure every student gets an appropriate mark. Each response will be monitored carefully throughout the marking.

The judges at the standards-setting operation will ensure that the question does not affect the number of students who can achieve a Band 6 result, or any other band result.

The procedures will be closely monitored by the Board’s staff, and the final results will be carefully audited by the Board’s independent technical advisory group.


Carol Taylor
Director, Assessment and Reporting
Office of the Board of Studies
 

Captain pi

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goan_crazy said:
Where I emailed
I got a reply with an attachment which is exactly what someone else
the board has obviously prepared a response to send everyone.
The document was called legal studies update
Firstly, do you really expect the Board to answer personally every single e-mail that they receive? Secondly, if your complaint was very similar to others, it makes sense for the Board to issue the same response.

In relation to the general nature of the angst over this question (I admit that I am not a student of this course), I believe that the Board shall thoroughly investigate this complaint. What you should request is the internal review (perhaps through FOI) when it is completed. It is a problem; and you do have a right to be unhappy about it. That said, I think there is some merit in examining things which people may not expect; however, the Board's attitude does not support this view.

I think you should avoid bombarding the Office of the Board with complaints: a complaint has already been lodged and there has been media coverage of it – the Board is going to take it seriously. Rather, I think you should look at want you want to get out of this. It may be fairness—you will get it as much as is possible; abusing the Board ain't going to help. It may be personal achievement—then concentrate on your exams.

After the HSC, you may realise that you don't care about 1.4% of your HSC. Nevertheless, I think we should organise to get ahold of that audit "by the Board’s independent technical advisory group."

Your sagacious surfer,


Captain pi.
 
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Smartie87 said:
I Just Spoke To A Lady From The Marking Centre At The Board Of Studies And She Said That Only A Small Amount Of People Have Complained, And That The Question Was Included To Distiguish Between The Better Students, And Those That Are Only Average!!!!

Get Signing That Petition People, So We Can Turn This 'small' Group Of Complaints Into Full Scale!!!!
well they can go and F*ck themselves. I am ranked first in legal and I walked out at the end of the exam nearly crying coz of such gay questions. Can you imagine how the rest of the class must have felt?
 

Smartie87

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redbloodedwoman said:
well they can go and F*ck themselves. I am ranked first in legal and I walked out at the end of the exam nearly crying coz of such gay questions. Can you imagine how the rest of the class must have felt?
yeh i kno how u feel... im ranked first too and was like wat the.... but i burnt out after the trials and havent really done much since then, so i wasnt upset... however if that ques was in my trials i would have had a breakdown lol
 

rnitya_25

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ok, it was a really unfair question, alot of people agree with that. but realistcially guys, what do you expect the board to do? take out that question entirely? give everyone full 19/19 for it? serously, be practical.
 

Smartie87

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they can mark it out of 81 and cut part c and d out totally, or give most ppk who had a reasonable attempt at it full marks... otherwise it will be bullshit cuz ppl who studied it will get full marks and those who did wat was asked in the syllabus will be disadvantaged.
 

scrump88@hotmai

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You all should know that the last two parts in the crime section are more based on opionion from knowledge, those who get the marks give a reasonable answer with referecnes to relevent acts case studies media reports.

The same in 2005 legal isnt just about what was in the syllubus but also what you can draw on from learning the content.

And sorry but there is more to life than a HSC, it is time people realised that. im sure that just becasue you didnt answer a 7 mark question that automatically you WONT GET YOUR LAW DEGREE.
If the whole state had difficulty answering the question than it will all be relative, same if the whole state fails Biology it is all scaled and bs so it all is even and fair in the end.

And it is unfair for them to those who didnt whine about the question and jsut went and attempted it not to be marked on it, because some students didnt think about what the question was asking, instead option to complain, procrastinate and whine to the BOS.

Generally people who do legal studies are more academic children, so there is a higher need to distinguish between the good and the average student that is why there are questions like this, a average student can generalise and complain a good student can think about the question and answer it.

The Board of Studies isnt covering their asses, and I'm sure and they are not incompetent, im sure if the question couldnt be asked it wouldn't be, unlike some peoples study it isnt done the night before, jsut becasue you did legal studies in your HSC doesnt mean you know the law.
 
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rnitya_25 said:
ok, it was a really unfair question, alot of people agree with that. but realistcially guys, what do you expect the board to do? take out that question entirely? give everyone full 19/19 for it? serously, be practical.
well actually i do expect them to get rid of part c & d. Its their responsibility to provide a sensible question/s for us to answer, having failed to do that, they have no choice but to rectify the shit they have stirred up. Seriously, one year to come up with a question and that was IT? Lol,
 
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scrump88@hotmai said:
The Board of Studies isnt covering their asses, and I'm sure and they are not incompetent, im sure if the question couldnt be asked it wouldn't be, unlike some peoples study it isnt done the night before, jsut becasue you did legal studies in your HSC doesnt mean you know the law.
I'd be really carefull with such generalisation about studying just one night before the exam. Alot of peple like my self DID study and could not apply the knowledge they gained by studying crime. Yes I do have common sense and yes I had to use it during the exam, while answering crime. But if that was the point of the exam, to test logic rather than knowledge, wtf was the point of wasting one term on crime? I think you're missing a point here, alot of people aren't pissed off here because they had to "think", its because they couldn't apply anything other than "crimes act" to the question. That is why BOS should rectify the problem.
 

Smartie87

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i worked my butt off all year... and i did use whatever knowledge i could think to apply to the situation in the exam...
have u ever considered that in an exam situation, there isnt a lot of time to sit and think?? also, i know that i was really thrown by the question, and after answering part c, i was stuffed for d.

futhermore, there are ppl who do 12 units of work... i only do 10, but i know that i was pushed for time just learning what was required of us by the syllabus, so where would i find time to learn about all issues in existance on the off chance they would be asked??

some ppl just dont understand.... THE REASON FOR THE SYLLABUS IS TO OUTLINE WAT IS REQUIRED AS KNOWLEDGE!!!!!!!!!! IF WE ARE SUPPOSED TO KNOW EVERYTHING WHY HAVE A SYLLABUS!?!?!?!?!?!??!
 

kezza-

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Very true, the question should only have been asked if it said something like, "By referring to juvenile justice, OR ONE other current criminal justice issue, compare and contrast the problems faced by TWO different groups when coming into contact with the Criminal Justice System".

I believe that's how it was asked in a past HSC paper. The fact is that Question 17 (c) is not on the syllabus - yes some people did it and by chance they got lucky - the issue here isn't whether one should have been able to apply extra-curricular knowledge, the issue is that many students did not do juvenile justice and many students did, as far as i know the HSC Exam has one purpose - to provide a complete NSW-wide way of ranking every student for a course - and to do that the BOS devises the Syllabus which is everything that can be asked of the students. It gives equality of opportunity - one thing that was not given in the HSC Exam. And that's the issue - equality.

Was the question equally fair to ALL students?
No.
If it was, why would so many be angry?

The question was not on the syllabus. Ergo, should not have been asked.
If you can find the dot point of the syllabus that says, "Juvenile Criminal Justice issues for young male and young female offenders", I will gladly take off my hat and admit that you are right. Did I come across juvenile issues in my study? You bet ya, and I made a note of it, as well as the other 14 criminal justice issues I had ready depending on what the question might be leaning to. The syllabus dot point gives each and every student an option - they can do whatever issue they wish, and they can do as many as they wish, which is the way it should have been asked in the exam - an option - providing equality to all.

For the people who believe it was fair I'm not here to attack you - if I was in your position I would be feeling lucky as hell and would probably have the exact attitude you have now.

But I ask you this, If the issue was "DNA testing of the criminal justice system using examples" would you be feeling the way you are? Chances are you'd be feeling like everyone else not in your position. If the issue was "Compare/Contrast gay and lesbian offenders and their contact with the Criminal Justice system" would you be feeling the way you are now?

The point is that asking issues specifically immediately discriminates between students who are lucky and those who are not - the HSC is to discriminate between the good, better and great students; which is why questions are asked fairly - our essays are a prime example - how many students were able to remember and address every single issue and remedy of world order or workplace or family, with examples of legislation, media articles, quotes from books and cases? The good students address most with legislation and some cases, the better students address all issues and remedies with legislation and cases, maybe even a media report, the great students address every issue, with a tonne of legislation, many case studies, quotes and references to media articles, and quotes from books by journalists and lawyers.

That's how we are judged - not on "Damn you were lucky, you studied 2 or 3 legal issues and one of em was on the test". We are judged fairly and equally to give every student the opportunity to show their potential. The idea of hard questions is to try and see what each student knows, has studied, was taught, and remembered all in combination. When faced with Question 17 (b) there will be students who didn't have a clue, some who had a mild idea, and others who knew exactly the ways to prevent crime - note that this question was fair because it made students link what they knew (Methods of Crime Prevention) with juveniles, it's applying knowledge. 17 (c) did not do this. Even 17 (d) had it's link to the syllabus - one needed to know the headings to assess "effectiveness" (from the syllabus) and then apply it to their knowledge of adults (which is studied in crime) and juveniles (which is broader and thus easier than specifically male and female offenders in (c)) and one could argue it was possible for a good student to manage a top quality answer.

I think what most people are getting a little edgy about with your attitude is simply that they want you to see it their way. From what I studied of juvenile issues I'd say I'm closer to your position than most, i knew SOME stuff. Just don't completely and utterly believe you are right. You might be, others might be, it's all up to the BOS now, but just realise that people here aren't looking to get attacked, they're obviously in this thread specifically because they believe there was an injustice - do you? If not, why are you in this thread? They don't want you to support the whole effort to pressure the BOS, they don't want you to attack them. They simply want you to think, "hey if I was in their position, that's what I'd be doing..."
 

scrump88@hotmai

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I didn't mean to generalise, and i didnt think i did by saying some. Most people work hard all year and they receive fitting marks.

It might not be fair for those who where "thrown" by the question, that is what they are meant to do distiguish between the ability of the students, really you should follow the rubreick in the exam, that is your key to how you answer the question.

It is not fair however to scrap a couple of questions becasue some didnt agree with them, when others used their time in the question, it is unfair for them. I did nothing on jouviniles in yr 11 or 12, but I answered the question to the best of my ability, which anyone will tell you never leave a question blank, if you have no idea write what you know which is what i did, I mentioned the Childrens court act, which give children separate courts closed from the public, and anything else i could think of. That is why i have posted, im sure many others followed adive from teacher and made sure they answered question to the best of their ability, it is than unfair for the board to take it out of the test and change the marks.
I DO HOWEVER AGREE WITH CHANGING THE MARKING GUIDELINES, THAT IS REASONABLE AND FAIR. If the BOS removes question because it throws people and they are unable to answer them, WHAT IS THE POINT IN DOING A HSC ALL THE QUESTIONS WOULD BE REMOVED.

And by the Way, I do 10 Units as well, however i do not have a in class teacher for legal studies, i do it through distance education, try learing the WHOLE course by your self, i contact my teacher over the phone if i have trouble, this year i have had 3 teachers, yet i still managed to stop and think about the question before going ahead and answering.. thank god i had time left from section 1
 

Smartie87

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oh trust me i tried learning it by myself- thats wat u have to do when u have very poor teachers... but i was constantly in trouble for not coming to class and teaching the course to myself. so in the end i had to sit in class, wasting time, and leaning shit all!

Mind you, i still ranked first and the rest of the class were 15 marks behind me in the trials, which proves my point- my teacher sucked, and i would have loved to have taught it to myself from beginning to end, and in doing so would have done a lot better.

and no i didnt leave it blank- i answered it. I just feel like i was ripped off after studying all year to be asked that rubbish. It isnt going to indicate my abilities as far as legal studies is concerned- not in the slightest. I am capable of 25/25 with ease when the questions have been addressed in the syllabus, but as i said before, i am very sorry board of studies that i didnt ensure i was up to date with every single criminal issue in our society incase you were stupid enuf to ask a question which was not required of us as knowledge... im REAL sorry that my efforts thru the year were not adequate enough.

those 2 ques... c and d.... could mean the difference between a 95 and an 85 and, yes, the difference between uni and no uni.

if we were told that the hsc could ask about issues not addressed by the syllabus i can tell u now i would have gone the extra mile and studied everything going on. fact of the matter is, it didnt and i dont have any bloody time these days to do any extra work on things which, as far as i am concerned, are NOTHING to do with the legal studies hsc course
 

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