Same Sex Marriage Debate (1 Viewer)

lorddoan007

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Serious debate on same sex marriage.

QUESTION : Should same sex marriage be legalised in Australia? If so, why? If it shouldn't, why not? and what effect would it have on Australia?
 

red152

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Same-sex marriage should be legalised. It is already legal in various countries including: Argentina, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Colombia, Denmark, Finland, France, Iceland, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, Mexico, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, the United Kingdom, the United States and Uruguay (according to Wikepedia.com). The religions and beliefs that constitute all the religions in Australia are expanding, and people are drifting away from traditional Christian ideals where same-sex marriage is opposed. People are caring less and becoming more accepting of same-sex couples than previously, and I think Australia should follow suit and legalise same-sex marriage. Some people seem to think that it is going to have severe social ramifications on society, but in actuality most people will be influenced very little. In Australia, there are already same-sex couples, and when/if they get married, it's not going to have much impact on anyone's life.
 

spaghettii

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Yes, same sex marriage should be legalised in Australia. As previously stated, many countries have already legalised it -we are lagging behind in terms of such human rights. This shouldn't be a matter of religion, as our government is meant to be keeping religion and state separate - this is a state issue, not a religious one. If it were, we wouldn't be having atheists getting married. Similarly, I think it is quite ridiculous that politicians such as Tony Abbott are using "religious freedom" and "free speech" as an argument against same sex marriage, because
1) Legalisation of same sex marriage will not even affect you unless you yourself are planning on entering a same sex marriage. If a family member is gay and wants to get married to their partner and you have a problem with it simply because they are gay, then tough luck. You shouldn't stop people from being happy together - their life, their problem
2) Freedom of speech isn't being able to say what you want, when you want. Freedom of speech is being able to express an opinion without being arrested - if you have valid reasons against same sex marriage, fine. But saying shit like "all homos are fucked they're all going straight to hell" is just hateful
I can't vote (obviously), let alone put together a good argument lmao, but that's just my two cents on the issue
 

OkDen

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Yea, why the hell not.

Also

Freedom of speech isn't being able to say what you want, when you want. Freedom of speech is being able to express an opinion without being arrested
I think Freedom of Speech IS being able to say whatever and whenever.
Freedoms either apply to all or to none, if neither then ironically enough freedoms become discriminatory.
 

enoilgam

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People on the left don't understand the word "debate".

This is literally why trump won. Because of leftist thugs. Wouldn't be surprised if another surprise happens.
Im fully expecting the no vote to prevail - ultimately, a plebiscite (and especially a postal plebiscite) is the only chance the no vote has of winning. If anyone thinks the Yes vote is a strong favorite, they need to get their head examined.

Ultimately, Im a strong supporter of SSM. Id consider myself to be largely a centrist with a lean leftward (Ive voted Liberal and Labour), but to me the SSM issue is an easier one. I have yet to see a good argument against SSM that goes beyond a shallow appeal to tradition. I think the whole religious freedom thing is a crock - what about the freedom of LGBT people? Last I checked, religion was a BELIEF and a CHOICE, being LGBT isnt. Dont get me wrong, Im all for freedom of religion, but I am a big supporter of freedom FROM religion for the large part of the population who are either athiest/agnostic or dont rate religion as being important to them. Freedom of religion means able to practice your beliefs as you please, it does not mean you have the right to impose your beliefs on others or have others lose their own freedoms to appease your beliefs.

All that being said, the Yes campaign predictably is playing this all wrong. They need to forget about attacking people and run a positive campaign because that is what will win over the centre. A good example of this is the fiasco over the Vote No ad. Yes, the ad is an outrage and thinnly veiled biogtry but at the end of the day, the kind of people who will fall for that nonsense will never vote yes anyway. So I would just issue a strong statement saying the ad is false and move on. They need to craft a narrative where love is the focus. In this day and age, most people have a loved one who is LGBT, they need to shift our focus on voting yes for the people we love in our lives who are LGBT. As I said before, Im a centrist and Im also straight. The main reason I feel strongly about this is because I have a few friends who are LGBT and I want SSM for them. That's the narrative that will work. Forget the bigotry game, you arent going to win them over so ignore them.
 

cosmo 2

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polling showed high chances of yes winning amongst those 'certain' to vote, no prob isnt going to win lol and people need to stop citing brexit and trump as examples of how no can win bc theyre not analogous at all
 

cosmo 2

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i doubt that bc it raises the issue of consent

there may be a new discourse some day on the legal recognition of polygamous relationships though, which is nearly as bad
 

enoilgam

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polling showed high chances of yes winning amongst those 'certain' to vote, no prob isnt going to win lol and people need to stop citing brexit and trump as examples of how no can win bc theyre not analogous at all
Polling showed Trump was almost certain to lose. He won largely because of silent support. I think it would be wrong to ignore the silent support against gay marriage. The Yes campaign would be wise to capitalise on this fear of a Trump/Brexit moment to solidify their support.

If yes happens because of "rights" then people will soon be arguing that 70 year old men loving 5 year old girls should be a "right" too
Well, it cant because the 70 year old's rights would infringe upon and unduly burden those of the 5 year old. Regardless, I would argue that with the appropriate protections, the right of LGBT people to marry wouldnt infringe upon the right to religious freedom. If the law covers churches from performing marriages and a conscience clause for business, I dont see the issue.

there may be a new discourse some day on the legal recognition of polygamous relationships though, which is nearly as bad
I disagree, polygamous marriages create a more significant issues with the law especially around divorce, property rights, wills etc. Those issues dont exist with SSM couples.
 

sinophile

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I think same sex marriage should be allowed in the civil sense, as a civil union, just not in a religious sense, as defined by whatever church or religion there is. If you're gay you can have your legally recognised marriage, but its not going to be recognised by the catholic church because you're not playing by the church's rules.
 

enoilgam

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I think same sex marriage should be allowed in the civil sense, as a civil union, just not in a religious sense, as defined by whatever church or religion there is. If you're gay you can have your legally recognised marriage, but its not going to be recognised by the catholic church because you're not playing by the church's rules.
I agree with this - it should be legalised from a civil standpoint, but religions should be free to decide upon whether they will allow SSM for themselves. This already happens within the Catholic Church, as divorced couples are unable to remarry in the church.
 

cosmo 2

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Polling showed Trump was almost certain to lose. He won largely because of silent support.
and those polls in a sense were correct - clinton enormously won the popular vote but marginally lost in a few key electorates that carried trump to victory. the degree to which the polls reflected the actual electoral reality was not far from the truth - its just they incorrectly predicted the outcomes of a few states, probably mostly due to underpolling and the thinness of the margins.

brexit was always about half and half and could have gone both ways

if no ends up winning it will be due to turn out suppression due to laziness/indifference but given polling and the degree to which so many young people seem to be fucking obsessed with this shit it doesnt seem as likely to me
 
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enoilgam

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and those polls in a sense were correct - clinton enormously won the popular vote but marginally lost in a few key electorates that carried trump to victory. the degree to which the polls reflected the actual electoral reality was not far from the truth - its just they incorrectly predicted the outcomes of a few states, probably mostly due to underpolling and the thinness of the margins.

brexit was always about half and half and could have gone both ways
Nonetheless, my point still stands regarding how to use the fear. If Im the Yes campaign, Id be ensuring the media publishes every poll indicating a win for No. Turnout is crucial and there is nothing like the specter of defeat to encourage people to vote. The Yes vote needs young people to turnout and generally speaking in other countries, turnout is usually poorest amongst this demographic.
 

Dream-Big

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I am voting "Yes" because I have lots of gay friends that really changed the way how I look at my life. Before, I had very little friends, but then I joined many clubs, including the Queer Collective Group at UTS 2 years ago, I'm still very friends with them today. Infact, we just played pool with each other after class about 2 hours and 15 minutes ago.

Edit: I'm not gay, I like women, incase you're wondering
 
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