Scaling and Relevancy of Maths? (1 Viewer)

[kini mini]

Originally posted by gnrlies

Look at our parents - ask them if they can do the maths that we are doing and they have buckleys. - WHY? Becuase its irrelevant to their jobs and their lives. [/B][/QUOTE]

One of my parents is a much better mathematician than I will or could ever be because he's an electrical engineer :p. So he's one parent who would understand :D.

Some people need a high degree of maths in their lives, others don't. But I agree with Minai that maths gives you very useful critical thinking skills.

 

[kini mini]

Originally posted by gnrlies

But then thats only a small proportion of the population. Im talking more in general - take a snapshot of the community - you have labourers, teachers, managers, lawyers, doctors, salespeople - hardly any ofn them use maths to a harder extent.

In other words, you do not agree that maths gives you worthwhile critical thinking skills, or you think that these could be imparted in some other more efficient way .

If we can just agree to disagree on that, we can stop arguing

 

[kini mini]

Originally posted by Cyph

MinAi, can I ask you to delete all these posts ?

It's worth shifting them to a topic of their own . I refrained from posting in this for so long, but when people started bashing the subject I couldn't restrain myself.

 

[Minai]

Originally posted by gnrlies



I know you said that it wasn't about laziness, but what i was trying to make the point, was that you cant stereotype people.

If you are doing enginering etc, of course maths is going to be a vital part of the subject in which case you would probably do a harder maths in school, but lets face it, in the real world nobody uses the maths that they learn in school. They might have a few different maths types that they use, but they dont need to do like 4 unit or extension maths at school to do it. It goes right through to university. I dont believe it is that important. I think that up to year 10 maths is usefull then after that its irrelevant to future career paths.

as for my 9/10 - thats assuming that the subjects dont involve maths as a key feature of the course. Perhaps economics, engineering and sciences need that level of maths, but then ideally the maths would be taught within that course (then perhaps people would get a grip on reality and realise its absolutely useless!)

What am i complaining about? Well I am someone who's weakest academic subject is maths, and i can see how useless it is and how irrelevant it is and am cynical at the way things work.

I'm not stereotyping anyone, I think the truth speaks for itself in this situation, and the scaling proves it.

I don't understand ur argument
u said "yr10 maths is useful and after that its irrelevant" ??

and u kinda contradicting urself. U say "If you are doing enginering etc, of course maths is going to be a vital part of the subject in which case you would probably do a harder maths in school, but lets face it, in the real world nobody uses the maths that they learn in school" - U see if they were doing engineering, in the real world, they'd use a lot of the maths they learnt at school. Remember, maths in school is a stepping stone. For example, u cannot just give a 5 yr old kid a 4U HSC paper and expect them to do it, because they havent learnt "the bits in between" - same goes for uni maths, U cant expect someone with yr10 maths knowledge to simply pick up and understand everything in higher math at uni.

u also say ppl must get a grip and realise maths is useless - how do u think technology is created upon? if it werent for maths, we wouldnt be sitting here typing away, technology is developed from mathematics, so u cannot say its useless. Unless ur career involves reading, writing, painting, studying history, or stuff like that, then yes mayb maths is pointless for u, but to say maths is useless is illogical

 

[Minai]

Originally posted by Cyph

You don't have to like what I said in my first post, it's the truth which is shown by the fact the subject is lower scaled than others.


MinAi, can I ask you to delete all these posts ?

thats wat ive been saying too

yeah, I'll shift this to another thread

 

[gnrlies]

Originally posted by Cyph


Ignorance is bliss.

You don't have to like what I said in my first post, it's the truth which is shown by the fact the subject is lower scaled than others.


MinAi, can I ask you to delete all these posts ?

i know that, but then my point was that you simply cant use words like stupid, or lazy becuase that is being stereotypical which i consider unfair to those candidates doing those subjects

 

[gnrlies]

Originally posted by kini mini


In other words, you do not agree that maths gives you worthwhile critical thinking skills, or you think that these could be imparted in some other more efficient way .

If we can just agree to disagree on that, we can stop arguing

Of course they dont!

I call it common sense!

Thats another thing. Most of the people i know who are really good at maths have problems with problem solving and common sense!

Its not so much that they are unintelligent, its just that their minds are more analytical rather than practical. I think that people who are more anaylitcal are better in terms of problem soling for more analytical things, but then they perhaps fall behind in the more practical situations...

 

[gnrlies]

Originally posted by kini mini

when people started bashing the subject I couldn't restrain myself.

haha this made me laugh

 

[gnrlies]

Originally posted by MinAi


I'm not stereotyping anyone, I think the truth speaks for itself in this situation, and the scaling proves it.

I don't understand ur argument
u said "yr10 maths is useful and after that its irrelevant" ??

and u kinda contradicting urself. U say "If you are doing enginering etc, of course maths is going to be a vital part of the subject in which case you would probably do a harder maths in school, but lets face it, in the real world nobody uses the maths that they learn in school" - U see if they were doing engineering, in the real world, they'd use a lot of the maths they learnt at school. Remember, maths in school is a stepping stone. For example, u cannot just give a 5 yr old kid a 4U HSC paper and expect them to do it, because they havent learnt "the bits in between" - same goes for uni maths, U cant expect someone with yr10 maths knowledge to simply pick up and understand everything in higher math at uni.

u also say ppl must get a grip and realise maths is useless - how do u think technology is created upon? if it werent for maths, we wouldnt be sitting here typing away, technology is developed from mathematics, so u cannot say its useless. Unless ur career involves reading, writing, painting, studying history, or stuff like that, then yes mayb maths is pointless for u, but to say maths is useless is illogical

No, you cant teach a 5 year old the harder maths, but thats why people should choose to do maths in subjects which they need it. If you are an engineer, you use maths on a daily basis, therefore you should do maths at school so that you can do the maths at UNI, but most other jobs dont use maths at all. I am refering to this on a final product.

As far as technology etc, well yes, some maths was needed to develop technology, but not that much. Computers use a very simple mathematic concept. Some of the more advanced things in computers need maths, but then if you want to become a computer engineer then you do maths. but that doesn't mean that i have to sit in a boring maths lesson doing things which is absolutely and utterly useless...

Do you know how useless it is? I cant get over how useless it is...

Maybe for somepeople it is valid, but for 90% of the population it is so useless. Yet why is it considered such a vital thing in school? Becuase its a buerocracy. Becuase asians are good at it and not much else and the government wants to keep getting those HK dollars coming in to make use of our education system.

Is all for the allmighty dollar.

Its so that the average australian cant do anything with their lives unless they are good at maths. Its fucked in the brains.

Ok. thats my little rant. Take your pickings!

(im sure i will get flamed)

 

[bobo123]

lol
i bet you will get flamed too

"asians are good at it and not much else"


i guess you must belong to the other side of the "english being compulsory" debate.

but yeah whatever, cant be fucked arguing with your powerful logic


anyway back on topic, i think the original starter of this thread has a point, and although it was only a generalisation, it does hard working, intelligent general maths students an injustice.

the counter argument to this is that some 4unit students are obviously out of their depth. Taking top schools like sydney boys and girls for example, i have heard people getting horrendous marks in their exams. Would that still place them in a higher intelligence bracket than general maths students?

 

[Twintip]

General maths is 'relevant'.

All other maths is not.

Bah, I'm just an asian in a slightly burnt Aussie body. Down with english!

 

[Minai]

Originally posted by gnrlies
Maybe for somepeople it is valid, but for 90% of the population it is so useless. Yet why is it considered such a vital thing in school? Becuase its a buerocracy. Becuase asians are good at it and not much else and the government wants to keep getting those HK dollars coming in to make use of our education system.

hahaha

are u even aware that Maths ISNT compulsory after yr10?

 

[gnrlies]

yes i know that, but then society places so much importance on maths as a subject. The reason why scaling is higher in maths is because it is expected that people do well in them. I mean maths is only 2 units (unless you do extension etc) yest it takes far more than its fair share of homework and study time. Some people pay a fortune on tutoring. Why? so that they can forget it all in a years time? No, to remember it for uni where they will then forget it.

As for my asian comment, i would predict that many people in here are asian, and whilst what i said may seem racist, i really dont feel that it is. I have many asian friends and have immense admiration for the culture but is it not true that asians dominate maths? I mean if you took the top 10% of maths candidates in the state i would garuntee that most of them are asian, yet if you did that for other subjects it wouldn't be as severe (in other words asians are excellent at maths, but their superiority doesn't shine through to the other subjects)

Perhaps i could of phrased it a little better....

 

[Minai]

Originally posted by gnrlies
The reason why scaling is higher in maths is because it is expected that people do well in them.

As for my asian comment, i would predict that many people in here are asian, and whilst what i said may seem racist, i really dont feel that it is. I have many asian friends and have immense admiration for the culture but is it not true that asians dominate maths? I mean if you took the top 10% of maths candidates in the state i would garuntee that most of them are asian, yet if you did that for other subjects it wouldn't be as severe (in other words asians are excellent at maths, but their superiority doesn't shine through to the other subjects)

firstly, ur above comments are wrong - scaling is not based on expectations of ppl to do well, its based on how well ppl do in their other subjects (canditure ability). For example, 3U maths gets good scaling BECAUSE the canditure of 3U maths tends to do well in all their subjects. So therefore, by this definition, Asians are superior in ALL their other subjects, because to get good scaling in the first place, the canditure must be doing well in ALL their subjects.
In other words, their superiority DOES shine thru to other subjects

 

[gnrlies]

when you recognised that these people do 4 unit maths, and then maybe a science (physics and chem) - or both - and then perhaps a subject like economics and then english, it really comes clear why scaling is much higher. But for the bulk of the subjects, they dont perform well (or at least comparitively).

The bottom line is that whilst many asians can do very well in maths, they dont do anywhere near as well (comparitively) than they do in maths.

You can give me all the UAI scaling shit, but thats bullshit if you ask me.

 

[bobo123]

maybe they should take out english and maths and see how asians go then

 

[Toodulu]

Originally posted by gnrlies

Computers use a very simple mathematic concept.

yea? tell us about it then.

 

[bobo123]

computers use binary

0101010101010110101011111101010110

MATRIX in 2 DAYS w00t

 

[Lazarus]

Originally posted by gnrlies
You can give me all the UAI scaling shit, but thats bullshit if you ask me.

Mmm and you can give us all your non-UAI scaling shit, but that's bullshit if you ask me.

 

[Minai]

hehe...this guy seems ignorant, or selectively chooses to disregard certain facts when he argues.