Senior Officer's experiences and account of middle eastern crime (1 Viewer)

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Hmmm very insightful indeed.

It's interesting that he makes the point that race is the pimary factor in a lot of gang crime, I never had that impression before.

It's certainly changed my perspective on gang crime, I used to get annoyed with the media for exaggerating the threat of Middle Eastern gangs but now I fear that the real problem is largely hidden from public view...
 

phatic

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Interesting stuff. I'd sure hate to live somewhere like Cabramatta or Redfern x.x
 

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S1M0 said:
This is pretty insightful stuff. It angers me that things like this happen and that police are unable to do anything about it. The Link to the article is below.

http://www.quadrant.org.au/php/archive_details_list.php?article_id=581
Bah thats Australia - it doesnt only happen at the at the police. Its some shit kind of attitude that australians are brought up with. Always to stick law rather than use common sense!.

I mean for eg, If there are set of instructions for a particular problem. And say that problem occurs in an environment. Suppose there is person like that detective in the who wrote that speech - finds better way, a much quicker way to solve and tells his manager. His manager will say - hey look there are set of instructions there why dont you follow that? Even those this person's method is much better the manager will not take his approach - Its attitude that exists in Australia which is fucken annoying!
And its everywhere, in schools, in librarys if there is better way to do something and someone outlines it - they dont take that approach.

It sucks because we do have few people who do have common sense - who are intelligent but then are let down.

more from Tim Priest: http://www.abc.net.au/pm/stories/s324969.htm
 
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Optophobia

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The person who wrote this speech had his mind up before he went on the job. I can tell just by reading the first few paragraphs that he is a bigot and if you think he hasn't used exaggeration and lies then you're kidding yourself.

What exactly he wants to do (not to unruly people, but unruly "lebanese" people) is unclear. It seems he's a bit disgruntled about not living in the days when he could hit an "abo" over the head with a telephone book and get away with it.

Call me stupid, call me a dinosaur, but I made sure that day that at least one person in the group that threw the brick was arrested.
Well good on ya mate! That's great and i'm sure it solved the problem of the group having a negative attitude towards police. After arresting them, i'm pretty sure they are going to love you.
I then reverted to the old ways of policing. I grabbed the nearest male and convinced him that it was he who had thrown the brick
Yeh, lets revert back to those good old ways! Despite the fact that probability states that this person more than likely wasn't the one who threw the brick.. it's good that you got one.. merely because he assosciated with the criminal who did!!!
His brave mates did nothing. By the time we arrived at the police station, this young fool had become compliant, apologetic and so afraid that he kept crying.
He knows this kids IQ how? How does he know he was a "fool"? Are IQ tests upon criminals routine?

I wish i could be a big man like you.. Making a young guy cry.

By "fool" he is substituting what he really means which is "kid" with a put down, to entice the readers into entering a "good on ya mate, i'm sick of these young, Lebanese criminals" feeding frenzy.
If he used the word "kid", instead of fool, it would not help him get his prejudice across and it would make him sound lame if he admitted to making a kid cry.

You may not agree with what I did, but I paraded this goose around the police station for all the young police to see what they had become frightened of. For some months after that, police routinely rounded up the family whenever it was warranted.
yeh, so you can see that it clearly was a solution to the problem.. Because they had to revisit heaps of times (it was "routine"!!).. But the most important thing was that he maintained his power trip.. He can't let these little foreign bastards get one over him!

(This guy has clearly joined the police for all the wrong reasons)

the family got back on top and within months had murdered a young Australian man who had wandered into their area drunk.
Ooh, they got back on "top".. You can see the power struggle emerging (in the mind of this officer at least)..

And they murdered an Australian man! (lol, we can't forget to include the most important fact, that he was 'Australian')..

And guess what guys.. the WHOLE family were in on the murder.

They were all standing around with knives stabbing the guy! Even the grand mother. She was like "ima gonna cut u fool.. with this knife concealed in my walking cane!!"

They had set up a caravan where they sold drugs twenty-four hours a day.
Twenty four hours a day! Well what do ya know! They were standing in the caravan, selling these drugs 24/7!!!! They must have taken it in shifts or something.

In effect, this family had taken control of Redfern. Senior police did their best to limit police action against them, fearing an avalanche of IA complaints that would count against the Commander at Peter Ryan’s next Op Crime Review.
So, let me get this right. He wants zero tolerance policing to be enforced against these 'lebanese thugs'... But he does not want to be subjected to zero tolerance in the form of complaints against himself and his officers...
(complaints which are pursued through avenues which, i might add, were created largely due to the corruption that the public encountered from people like this guy a decade earlier).
I hope the examples I have just used don’t give the impression that I am a racist or a bully.
No, not one bit.

Actually, he does want to give this impression, but he does not want to admit to this (and he wants to dispel any concern that you may have that this is actually the case) because it might lower his articles reputation in the readers mind. He wants to position himself as an honorable "big" police man fighting against these hoards of foreign thugs. The emphasis being on "foreign", not "thugs".

The point I want to make from the start is that policing has never been rocket science.
But it is. We live in a post modern world where things are difficult to define. We have large social problems which cannot be solved by simple "bully" tactics and heavy handed policing strategies.. Because as this guy has already said (yet, which he fails to realise) the problems just continue to emerge on both the micro scale (this family continued to be arrested) and on the macro scale (gangs continue to emerge). To solve the bad attitudes towards police and society you need to attack the cause of the problem, not the person.

The Lebanese groups were ruthless, extremely violent, and they intimidated not only innocent witnesses, but even the police that attempted to arrest them.
I'm glad that the non-Lebanese criminals that he arrested weren't violent and intimidating towards him when he arrested them..

It never happens guys. Only criminals of Lebanese descent are rude to witnesses and police. True fact, no disputing this thanks. (I'm sure it's just an observation that he's made from his "years" of on-the-beat policing).

--

Of all the police that i have met in my degree.. and of all the places they have come from and from all the climates they have walked in.. Not one of them has had the attitude that the dick who wrote this article has. That's because anyone with policing experience knows that this mans attitude towards policing is not viable.

Half way through the article he switches from being the proactive fat bigot, to the emotional
But when I went forward and exposed the shame of Cabramatta, the residents were not Asians in my eyes, but Australians no matter where they came from.
type of person.

A typical wanker. You know, it's important that he viewed them as Australians "no matter where they came from".. Because he's the ultimate arbiter of what is and isn't Australian. He's important.. VERY IMPORTANT.

It's a typical rant. He starts off stating the problem in his eyes (the problem with foreign criminals) and then starts to break down emotionally when he realizes it's not going to change to be the way that he wants it. Through being emotional, he attempts to appeal to the emotions of the readers. He tries to make out that he has emerged from some golden age where these social problems didn't exist.
 
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Optophobia

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If you want to read an honours thesis regarding young lebanese and their interactions with police, and how tough policing does NOT work, read here:

ZeroToleranc0.pdf
 

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Optophobia said:
The person who wrote this speech had his mind up before he went on the job. I can tell just by reading the first few paragraphs that he is a bigot and if you think he hasn't used exaggeration and lies then you're kidding yourself.

What exactly he wants to do (not to unruly people, but unruly "lebanese" people) is unclear. It seems he's a bit disgruntled about not living in the days when he could hit an "abo" over the head with a telephone book and get away with it.


Well good on ya mate! That's great and i'm sure it solved the problem of the group having a negative attitude towards police. After arresting them, i'm pretty sure they are going to love you.

Yeh, lets revert back to those good old ways! Despite the fact that probability states that this person more than likely wasn't the one who threw the brick.. it's good that you got one.. merely because he assosciated with the criminal who did!!!

He knows this kids IQ how? How does he know he was a "fool"? Are IQ tests upon criminals routine?

I wish i could be a big man like you.. Making a young guy cry.

By "fool" he is substituting what he really means which is "kid" with a put down, to entice the readers into entering a "good on ya mate, i'm sick of these young, Lebanese criminals" feeding frenzy.
If he used the word "kid", instead of fool, it would not help him get his prejudice across and it would make him sound lame if he admitted to making a kid cry.


yeh, so you can see that it clearly was a solution to the problem.. Because they had to revisit heaps of times (it was "routine"!!).. But the most important thing was that he maintained his power trip.. He can't let these little foreign bastards get one over him!

(This guy has clearly joined the police for all the wrong reasons)


Ooh, they got back on "top".. You can see the power struggle emerging (in the mind of this officer at least)..

And they murdered an Australian man! (lol, we can't forget to include the most important fact, that he was 'Australian')..

And guess what guys.. the WHOLE family were in on the murder.

They were all standing around with knives stabbing the guy! Even the grand mother. She was like "ima gonna cut u fool.. with this knife concealed in my walking cane!!"

Twenty four hours a day! Well what do ya know! They were standing in the caravan, selling these drugs 24/7!!!! They must have taken it in shifts or something.


So, let me get this right. He wants zero tolerance policing to be enforced against these 'lebanese thugs'... But he does not want to be subjected to zero tolerance in the form of complaints against himself and his officers...
(complaints which are pursued through avenues which, i might add, were created largely due to the corruption that the public encountered from people like this guy a decade earlier).

No, not one bit.

Actually, he does want to give this impression, but he does not want to admit to this (and he wants to dispel any concern that you may have that this is actually the case) because it might lower his articles reputation in the readers mind. He wants to position himself as an honorable "big" police man fighting against these hoards of foreign thugs. The emphasis being on "foreign", not "thugs".


But it is. We live in a post modern world where things are difficult to define. We have large social problems which cannot be solved by simple "bully" tactics and heavy handed policing strategies.. Because as this guy has already said (yet, which he fails to realise) the problems just continue to emerge on both the micro scale (this family continued to be arrested) and on the macro scale (gangs continue to emerge). To solve the bad attitudes towards police and society you need to attack the cause of the problem, not the person.

I'm glad that the non-Lebanese criminals that he arrested weren't violent and intimidating towards him when he arrested them..

It never happens guys. Only criminals of Lebanese descent are rude to witnesses and police. True fact, no disputing this thanks. (I'm sure it's just an observation that he's made from his "years" of on-the-beat policing).

--

Of all the police that i have met in my degree.. and of all the places they have come from and from all the climates they have walked in.. Not one of them has had the attitude that the dick who wrote this article has. That's because anyone with policing experience knows that this mans attitude towards policing is not viable.

Half way through the article he switches from being the proactive fat bigot, to the emotional type of person.

A typical wanker. You know, it's important that he viewed them as Australians "no matter where they came from".. Because he's the ultimate arbiter of what is and isn't Australian. He's important.. VERY IMPORTANT.

It's a typical rant. He starts off stating the problem in his eyes (the problem with foreign criminals) and then starts to break down emotionally when he realizes it's not going to change to be the way that he wants it. Through being emotional, he attempts to appeal to the emotions of the readers. He tries to make out that he has emerged from some golden age where these social problems didn't exist.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/verbosity
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bullshit
 
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mathmite, stop acting like you are the authority on all things to do with police. you have been doing the degree for one fucking year, and the amount of bullshit you spout is insane.
 

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nwatts said:
Yes, that is what you find in the speech by this man, indeed.
katietheskatie said:
mathmite, stop acting like you are the authority on all things to do with police. you have been doing the degree for one fucking year, and the amount of bullshit you spout is insane.
What bullshit did i 'spout'?

Oh you're a redneck, so you can't find any bullshit but you're simply labeling it 'bullshit' because it conflicts with your bigot paradigm.
 

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Optophobia said:
Yes, that is what you find in the speech by this man, indeed.

What bullshit did i 'spout'?

Oh you're a redneck, so you can't find any bullshit but you're simply labeling it 'bullshit' because it conflicts with your bigot paradigm.

I see you're utilising Dr. Kennedy's thesis as justification for your argument; impartiality is completely removed from the equation the moment you do so. Whilst Tim Priest has his prejudices, so does the author of the thesis, who is more concerned with 'social causation' and 'political correctness' than effective policing solutions. It is virtually impossible to debate the points with the 'learned Dr', as he fails to accept other conflicting viewpoints, and any possible validity that they may have. Neither document should be treated as Gospel, and quite frankly, they are two extremes of the spectrum that represent a small percentage of views.

Each man spent a considerable period of their lives working with the police, and each has their different experiences. One thing that I can guarantee however, is that many officers will be able to relate to Mr Priest and his attitude towards crime in NSW. Of course social factors play a central part in the development and entrenchment of crime in particular communities, however we are yet to see how this type of rationalisation contributes to the development of tangible solutions.

Every officer that you meet at this point in the degree will share Dr Kennedy's views and approaches to crime. However, when you conduct your station placement you will realise that these attitudes, moulded in the confines of educational institutions, do not bear any resemblance to the attitudes of many officers dealing with these people every day. I suggest you communicate witha broader section of the policing community, and realise that university education greatly conflicts with the social and political reality within the NSW Police.

As for your perception of the post Wood Royal Commission 'complaints system', it clearly shows you know nothing in relation to the impact it has upon the ability of officers to even utilise the most mundane of powers. A complaints system now exists that prioritises political advancement over effective policing.

Read this thread http://www.policensw.com/board/index.php?act=ST&f=54&t=6058& (If it works, may require authorised login) Again it should not be taken as Gospel, nothing should, however it provides a greater variety of viewpoints from officers within the force..
 

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frog12986 said:
I see you're utilising Dr. Kennedy's thesis as justification for your argument; impartiality is completely removed from the equation the moment you do so. Whilst Tim Priest has his prejudices, so does the author of the thesis, who is more concerned with 'social causation' and 'political correctness' than effective policing solutions. It is virtually impossible to debate the points with the 'learned Dr', as he fails to accept other conflicting viewpoints, and any possible validity that they may have. Neither document should be treated as Gospel, and quite frankly, they are two extremes of the spectrum that represent a small percentage of views.
the difference being that Dr Kennedy has a PhD behind him and has been educated and isn't racist and actually offers a solution to the problem.. Which can be contrasted with the person who gave the above speech who doesn't have a PhD.. Isn't educated, holds prejudices and offers no real solutions and simply criticizes people because they are Lebanese. He's a simple closet racist and there's no other way to look at it.

frog12986 said:
Each man spent a considerable period of their lives working with the police, and each has their different experiences. One thing that I can guarantee however, is that many officers will be able to relate to Mr Priest and his attitude towards crime in NSW. Of course social factors play a central part in the development and entrenchment of crime in particular communities, however we are yet to see how this type of rationalisation contributes to the development of tangible solutions.
Many officers share this prejudice which is exactly why the bachelor of policing degree was created - to overcome the inherent prejudices that come with being middle to lower class white people.

frog12986 said:
Every officer that you meet at this point in the degree will share Dr Kennedy's views and approaches to crime. However, when you conduct your station placement you will realise that these attitudes, moulded in the confines of educational institutions, do not bear any resemblance to the attitudes of many officers dealing with these people every day.
And that's a good thing?
frog12986 said:
I suggest you communicate witha broader section of the policing community, and realise that university education greatly conflicts with the social and political reality within the NSW Police.
And you've been not paying attention in the lectures? Or was it that you didn't have him as a first year lecturer?
frog12986 said:
As for your perception of the post Wood Royal Commission 'complaints system', it clearly shows you know nothing in relation to the impact it has upon the ability of officers to even utilise the most mundane of powers. A complaints system now exists that prioritises political advancement over effective policing.
That is exactly what zero tolerance policing is. "political advancement over effective policing". So, if this man doesn't like himself and other officers being subject to such tight scrutiny, then why does he suggest that "Lebanese thugs" be subjected to the strict book throwing of the law?

The person who gave the speech is an authoritarian. He's joined the police with this idea that "i'm a big tough police officer. I guard society, i know everything, everyone will obey me and do as i say". He's an idiot and although both men have their own influences, its reasonable to say that Dr Kennedy knows what he is talking about, where as this prejudiced mofo in the speech above, doesn't. He just expects unquestionable obedience not to the law, but to him.

If you can read the speech above and not even raise an eye lid, then you have wasted your time in the degree so far.
 
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Optophobia said:
Oh you're a redneck, so you can't find any bullshit but you're simply labeling it 'bullshit' because it conflicts with your bigot paradigm.
i'm a redneck? honey, you're the one that goes to uws.
 

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katietheskatie said:
i'm a redneck? honey, you're the one that goes to uws.
Yeh i guess you're right.

:uhoh::rolleyes:

I notice that not one person has actually attacked what i've said. They only attack UWS, a lecturer there, or me.

Lame arses :santa:
 

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