Should I do Medicine?? (1 Viewer)

idkkdi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2019
Messages
1,984
Gender
Male
HSC
2021
The answer isn't that simple, and a lot of those are myths. You do have the potential for money and stability, but that comes much later. For the next 15-20 years, if you decide to do medicine, you'll be working unpredictable hours, moving all over the country, and earning a small income whilst having massive piles of debt and expenses to pay. Not to mention high social status isn't really felt nor should it be a reason to do medicine.
1. money and stability comes later, but there is nothing that even compares to the certainty of this money and stability in any other career. It's not potential. It's a fact, that you get that much money once you are fully accredited. unlike other careers, unemployment issues are very small.
2. unpredictable hours applies to any career if you plan to get this much money.
3. You do not have to move all over the country.
4. A small income is an understatement. It's probably equivalent to a normal graduate.
5. Pile of debt and expenses is HECs, gets cut from taxes.
6. Of course high social status is a part of it. You're respected by society and not demonised by the media like bankers.

These are great points.

From the start of uni to the end of med school will be 5-7 years minimum, depending on if you do undergrad or postgrad and if you get in the first time you apply, which most people do not. That's 5-7 years of debt. There's a chance you will decide to (or possibly need to) undertake further study to make yourself competitive for specialty training, so there's potentially more debt.

The amount of money you make in your early years won't be bad - but it will be bad compared to the hours you work, how hard your job is, how hard you worked to get there. Your hours will be awful. You will be sacrificing a lot. Eventually you will make better money and have more control over your hours, but you have to train for a long time to get there. Once you get into a specialty training program, which may take many years, you might get lucky and be able to stay in the same location. Or you could have to relocate to another state, multiple times, for years.

Being respected in society is great but should not be the primary motivation to become a medical practitioner.

Also keep in mind that if you are offered a place in a medical degree, it may be a BMP, in which case you will be required to work 3 years in a regional or rural location in the future. This might not seem like a big deal when you accept your offer and enrol in medical school, but it might be very difficult by the time you have to actually return that service. What if you have a family, kids at school, a spouse who can't just leave their occupation (or... does not want to)? What if the specialty you have chosen and trained in is extremely difficult to practice outside of metropolitan areas due to lack of resources and facilities necessary, or even due to low patient demand?

I am not telling you not to consider medicine. I am just saying, give it serious thought before you commit. It's not just: medical degree = specialist physician doing what they want and making excellent money.
In the long run, this is basically what occurs "medical degree = specialist physician doing what they want and making excellent money.".
Nothing else compares to the rigidity and straightforwardness of this path.
Any other way to make that type of money is much more messed up compared to this.
 

idkkdi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2019
Messages
1,984
Gender
Male
HSC
2021
1. money and stability comes later, but there is nothing that even compares to the certainty of this money and stability in any other career. It's not potential. It's a fact, that you get that much money once you are fully accredited. unlike other careers, unemployment issues are very small.
2. unpredictable hours applies to any career if you plan to get this much money.
3. You do not have to move all over the country.
4. A small income is an understatement. It's probably equivalent to a normal graduate.
5. Pile of debt and expenses is HECs, gets cut from taxes.
6. Of course high social status is a part of it. You're respected by society and not demonised by the media like bankers.


In the long run, this is basically what occurs "medical degree = specialist physician doing what they want and making excellent money.".
Nothing else compares to the rigidity and straightforwardness of this path.
Any other way to make that type of money is much more messed up compared to this.
nothing is absolute. things are relative.
therefore,
med ----> high social status, money, actually helping society, stability of life.
 

anon2017

New Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2020
Messages
22
Gender
Female
HSC
2017
In the long run, this is basically what occurs "medical degree = specialist physician doing what they want and making excellent money.".
In the long run, yes. I just want them to realise that it takes a long time to get there though.
E.g. let's take the shortest pathway to become a specialist in Australia. A GP who did a 5yr undergrad med degree. 5yrs uni + PGY1 + 3yrs GP training = 9 years to become a specialist.
Let's take a longer (and more realistic) pathway. An emergency medicine physician who completed postgrad med. 3yrs undergrad + 1yr that they were unsuccessful getting into med + 4yrs med school + PGY1 + PGY2 + PGY3 + 5yrs EM training = 16 years to become a specialist.
 

quickoats

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2017
Messages
997
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2019
In the long run, yes. I just want them to realise that it takes a long time to get there though.
E.g. let's take the shortest pathway to become a specialist in Australia. A GP who did a 5yr undergrad med degree. 5yrs uni + PGY1 + 3yrs GP training = 9 years to become a specialist.
Let's take a longer (and more realistic) pathway. An emergency medicine physician who completed postgrad med. 3yrs undergrad + 1yr that they were unsuccessful getting into med + 4yrs med school + PGY1 + PGY2 + PGY3 + 5yrs EM training = 16 years to become a specialist.
More competitive specialties like ophthal etc people do PhD’s on the side for more chance of selection so training could be upwards of 20 years.

Oral maxillofacial surgeons (doctor dentists who might have taken your wisdom teeth out) need both a med and dent degree and a tonne of specialty training so go figure :)
 

anon2017

New Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2020
Messages
22
Gender
Female
HSC
2017
More competitive specialties like ophthal etc people do PhD’s on the side for more chance of selection so training could be upwards of 20 years.

Oral maxillofacial surgeons (doctor dentists who might have taken your wisdom teeth out) need both a med and dent degree and a tonne of specialty training so go figure :)
Yep! And then you've got to factor in that many applicants won't get into med on their first or second try - could be third, fourth, fifth try. I know someone who wasn't accepted for 7 years, and now even if they get into specialty training on the first attempt, it will have taken them 16 years of study and applications and work to get there.
 

edds7575

New Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Messages
17
Gender
Male
HSC
2020
1. money and stability comes later, but there is nothing that even compares to the certainty of this money and stability in any other career. It's not potential. It's a fact, that you get that much money once you are fully accredited. unlike other careers, unemployment issues are very small.
2. unpredictable hours applies to any career if you plan to get this much money.
3. You do not have to move all over the country.
4. A small income is an understatement. It's probably equivalent to a normal graduate.
5. Pile of debt and expenses is HECs, gets cut from taxes.
6. Of course high social status is a part of it. You're respected by society and not demonised by the media like bankers.


In the long run, this is basically what occurs "medical degree = specialist physician doing what they want and making excellent money.".
Nothing else compares to the rigidity and straightforwardness of this path.
Any other way to make that type of money is much more messed up compared to this.
Most of this isn't true. Unpredictable hours don't apply to every career. Let's take dentistry for example. The degree is the same length as medicine, but there's no internship involved and no residency, straight into private practice earning money with predictable work hours. With medicine, you are constantly working overtime, on call, shift work, etc. during internship and residency, and even after you attain your fellowship, some specialties require you to work on call.

It's basically impossible to pursue a career in medicine without moving everywhere. For a start, most applicants apply all over the country, and most end up with one offer only and have to move. Then during your degree, you have to undertake rural placements which requires you to move. After graduating, you can't just choose wherever you want to do your internship as well. As for specialist training, they're so competitive nowadays that you pretty much won't get a choice as to which hospital you work in, and so you will have to move elsewhere.

The income is definitely not equal to a normal graduate, at least for the amount of years you have studied (what even is a normal graduate). For NSW, an intern's base salary is 66k, which is much lower than what a dentist could be earning when they graduate. And while your university costs get covered by HECS, there's no similar scheme for specialty training. For the RACP, it's literally 4k per year in training fees plus up to 3k for a fellowship exam, all of which you have to pay yourself. As for high social status, do you think you'll have time to worry about that when you're working so much overtime?

That doesn't sound very straightforward to me.
 

idkkdi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2019
Messages
1,984
Gender
Male
HSC
2021
Most of this isn't true. Unpredictable hours don't apply to every career. Let's take dentistry for example. The degree is the same length as medicine, but there's no internship involved and no residency, straight into private practice earning money with predictable work hours. With medicine, you are constantly working overtime, on call, shift work, etc. during internship and residency, and even after you attain your fellowship, some specialties require you to work on call.

It's basically impossible to pursue a career in medicine without moving everywhere. For a start, most applicants apply all over the country, and most end up with one offer only and have to move. Then during your degree, you have to undertake rural placements which requires you to move. After graduating, you can't just choose wherever you want to do your internship as well. As for specialist training, they're so competitive nowadays that you pretty much won't get a choice as to which hospital you work in, and so you will have to move elsewhere.

The income is definitely not equal to a normal graduate, at least for the amount of years you have studied (what even is a normal graduate). For NSW, an intern's base salary is 66k, which is much lower than what a dentist could be earning when they graduate. And while your university costs get covered by HECS, there's no similar scheme for specialty training. For the RACP, it's literally 4k per year in training fees plus up to 3k for a fellowship exam, all of which you have to pay yourself. As for high social status, do you think you'll have time to worry about that when you're working so much overtime?

That doesn't sound very straightforward to me.
do you seriously think med works that much overtime. any other career where anyone pursues the same earning potential would require similar hours. and guess what. in those careers you don't have stability.

comparing dentistry and medicine is pretty redundant. two pieces of what is essentially the same pie, with one focusing on teeth. Also dentistry has quite a few detriments, which you can ask @quickoats if you want to be enlightened.

4k per year in training fees plus up to 3k for a fellowship exam. Intern base salary 66k with overtime pay excluded. that's not much out of your salary mate.
 

quickoats

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2017
Messages
997
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2019
comparing dentistry and medicine is pretty redundant. two pieces of what is essentially the same pie, with one focusing on teeth. Also dentistry has quite a few detriments, which you can ask @quickoats if you want to be enlightened.
Disclaimer: Not a dentist or dental student but have dentists in the family. A pretty good job where you can do good things but not really comparable to medicine (apart from the surgical and biological aspect). imo it parallels optom a bit more (5 year entry to practice in the private sector) but with a bigger pay packet due to the more demanding and specialised work. With the emergence of no gap (and the $99 business model - shocking) as well as a relative oversupply in cities, it would be harder to set up your own shop if that is what you want to do (a bit like optom with specsavers). Compare that to even GP where you can set up a clinic literally anywhere and people will come since the government pretty much pays for it anyway. The physical aspect affects people differently but being bent over, wearing loupes, and using fine motor skills do hurt your eyes, neck, back and hands over time so you won't be working as long as your doctor colleagues (my GP is like in his 70s and still going). Surgeons probably don't have this problem since they don't do as much surgery I'm assuming as a lot of their time is taken up by consulting hours? Still a good gig with good pay (even oral health therapists make decent $$) but only go into it if that's exactly what you want to do, rather than doing it as a med alternative.
4k per year in training fees plus up to 3k for a fellowship exam. Intern base salary 66k with overtime pay excluded. that's not much out of your salary mate.
If we're comparing med and dent, dental specialists need an extra 3 year DClinDent degree + RACDS training. The fees for the degree alone are upwards of 45k per annum full fee only.
 

ShirleyKennedy

New Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2021
Messages
6
Gender
Male
HSC
2014
All should choose a profession with the heart, not the mind. To become a qualified physician, one must have, at the very least, talent. It is said not in vain that doctors are born, not made.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top