Should Muslim Holidays be recognised in Australia? (2 Viewers)

russs

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These portions are only a minority, made 'loud' by media portrayal. People who hate immigrants are purely ignorant.
Everybody has an inner immigrant. Somewhere along the line, ancestors/prisoners migrated to Australia.
I think you sort of got my point. But, it is up to the immigrants (saying that an immigrant is someone coming to Australia at a current time) to assimilate.

Demanding extra holidays does not help, especially since Muslims are already the most hated immigrant group (I am speculating here though).
 

Freedom_

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I believe in freedom. I believe immigrants should not have to assimilate. We are not all the same and we should not force anyone to be like us. For along as they aren't committing any crimes or effecting your right to be free, know one has the right to force change upon anyone unless that change is chosen by the individual.
 

russs

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I believe in freedom. I believe immigrants should not have to assimilate. We are not all the same and we should not force anyone to be like us.
Freedom is great in textbook, just doesn't seem to work well in real life.

There is always a group that will force their interests on others.

Therefore, we must (pretty much) do the same to preserve our interests.

Its just human nature.
 

Jeee

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I think you sort of got my point. But, it is up to the immigrants (saying that an immigrant is someone coming to Australia at a current time) to assimilate.

Demanding extra holidays does not help, especially since Muslims are already the most hated immigrant group (I am speculating here though).
Lol, I wasn't trying to grasp anyone's point, I was simply making my own.
Assimilate? Are we still in the 20th century? Assimilate to what, may I ask?
Beer, beaches and sheilas?
 

Sprangler

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Well if you're a Muslim from the Middle East assimilating pretty much just means giving up violent backward sand culture. Honor killings, terrorism, stoning people to death, attacking homosexuals and Jews, that sort of thing.
 

russs

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Lol, I wasn't trying to grasp anyone's point, I was simply making my own.
Assimilate? Are we still in the 20th century? Assimilate to what, may I ask?
Beer, beaches and sheilas?
Get used to Christian holidays. Don't ask for more, such as this:

Harvard gym tests Muslim women-only hours.
Revealed: UK's first official sharia courts.

Well if you're a Muslim from the Middle East assimilating pretty much just means giving up violent backward sand culture. Honor killings, terrorism, stoning people to death, attacking homosexuals and Jews, that sort of thing.
I've met muslims who hate Jews. Everything else, is probably quite rare.
 
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Freedom_

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Freedom is great in textbook, just doesn't seem to work well in real life.

There is always a group that will force their interests on others.

Therefore, we must (pretty much) do the same to preserve our interests.

Its just human nature.
Human nature is to be free. Period.

There is no moral excuse, in a society claiming to be free to then coerce new immigrants to betray their whole identity and culture and take up a new foreign one all for the sake to promote the interests of specific individuals.

It is vitally necessary for each man’s survival and prosperity that he be free to learn, choose, develop his faculties, and act upon his knowledge and values. This is the necessary path of human nature; for any one or government to interfere with and cripple this process by using violence or coercing people to change goes profoundly against what is necessary by man’s nature for his life and prosperity. Any forceful interference with a man’s learning and choices to be himself is profoundly “antihuman”; it violates the natural law of man’s needs, wants and right to be himself.
 

Jeee

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Human nature is to be free. Period.

There is no moral excuse, in a society claiming to be free to then coerce new immigrants to betray their whole identity and culture and take up a new foreign one all for the sake to promote the interests of specific individuals.

It is vitally necessary for each man’s survival and prosperity that he be free to learn, choose, develop his faculties, and act upon his knowledge and values. This is the necessary path of human nature; for any one or government to interfere with and cripple this process by using violence or coercing people to change goes profoundly against what is necessary by man’s nature for his life and prosperity. Any forceful interference with a man’s learning and choices to be himself is profoundly “antihuman”; it violates the natural law of man’s needs, wants and right to be himself.
Amen.
 

orthentix

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Lol, I wasn't trying to grasp anyone's point, I was simply making my own.
Assimilate? Are we still in the 20th century? Assimilate to what, may I ask?
Beer, beaches and sheilas?
Somehow the stereotyped bogans you have mentioned can produce a better society than one with a rich cultural heritage, says alot I believe.
 
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russs

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Human nature is to be free. Period.

There is no moral excuse, in a society claiming to be free to then coerce new immigrants to betray their whole identity and culture and take up a new foreign one all for the sake to promote the interests of specific individuals.

It is vitally necessary for each man’s survival and prosperity that he be free to learn, choose, develop his faculties, and act upon his knowledge and values. This is the necessary path of human nature; for any one or government to interfere with and cripple this process by using violence or coercing people to change goes profoundly against what is necessary by man’s nature for his life and prosperity. Any forceful interference with a man’s learning and choices to be himself is profoundly “antihuman”; it violates the natural law of man’s needs, wants and right to be himself.
And if the immigrants culture clashes with the interests of the majority, what is there to do?

I am not talking about just Muslims here, this goes for everyone. We must set a mark and enforce it to preserve the integrity of the society. Since Australia has somehow managed to create a better society than most other countries, isn't it in our interests to keep it this way?
 
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If we have INVITED you into our country, granted you the privilege of living here- do not cry if you then disrespect the hand that feeds.

Seriously, GTFO.
lol this argument is much like that episode of Seinfield where Kramer gives Jerry his blood and they become bloodbrothers and kramer asks for favor after favor... when does it end? When do they become aussies and not just 'ethnics' that should be grateful from 'our' generosity?

lol most 'ethnics' have come here as skilled migrants anyway. So they have TECHNICALLY come here not through open invitations so that they can have a better life thanks to the generosity (they have in terms of the better life bit) of the average vb drinking aussie, but so that they can fill the gap in some jobs that can't get enough skilled workers domestically.
That should be the case, but not always.

This granted privilege BS should be cast upon refugees and the like who are trully benefiting from generosity.
 
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Definitely not before same-sex marriages are. If we can overcome 'fundamental Australian values' to recognise the culture/religion of a minority within Australia, we can surely do the same for the legal rights of same sex couples.
 
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I better acknowledge my personal bias here: I'm a Muslim. Thus, of course I believe it is ideal that Eid can be more predominantly recognised as a religious holiday in Australia:)

Having said that, I don't believe that a public holiday for it is necessary at present. But I do believe it should be applicable for people to have like up to 4 religious days off work each year or something, for whichever religion a person practises.

I think that would be an effective way to acknowledge the multicultural policy which is meant to pervade in Australia (even if there is some dissension in this forum from this and support for assimilation instead).

It seems to me the point we are arguing or discussing is not Islam specifically, but religious/cultural tolerance. I believe that partly what makes Australia so great is its capacity (at least in theory) to recognise and appreciate the diversity of religious and cultural groups. By enabling religious holidays from work without having to pull a sickie or provide any other reason than the significance of a religous day, seems important to me to recognise said diversity.

I don't think it's appropriate to just deem the desire for recognised religious holidays of minority groups as a matter of come to our country, adopt our values. I was personally born and raised in Australia, so I don't consider myself a migrant (even if that technically makes me second generation migrant), and we are technically a secular society. Even if Christianity would be the dominant religion at present, different religious groups are growing at different rates and of course there are atheists out there so I don't think religious assimilation is something that fits multicultural or even human rights ideals.

Plus as some have mentioned if we want to get technical the Christian religion in Australia can be deemed a migrant religion since Indigenous religious beliefs existed for tens of thousands of years prior. That is in no way to disrespect Christians/ Christianity, but just to reaffirm that if religious priorities are to be based on migrant or naturalised status, then Anglo Saxons are also migrants:D

The majority is not always right. E.g. Indigenous peoples were classified under the Flora and Fauna Act in Australian until the 1967 Referendum, and I sure as hell don't think that the fact that it was commonly accepted made it right. As values of society change, so should our responses towards it in order to allow for true equality.

So yeah, I reckon that Muslim holidays should be recognised, at least to the extent that it is considered a valid reason for taking a few days a year off work. But that should be offered to every religious minority for major holidays as part of their personal, spiritual and religious beliefs. :)
 
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Yeah, lets say we did recognise muslim holidays, wouldn't that be extremely unfair to all the other religious holidays that aren't recognised ? Not to mention all the people from other religious demanding public holidays for their religious holidays, which will probably result in a massive reduction in productivity around Australia, not to mention all the inconvenience everyone will have to experience.

Infact, it would be quite awesome if Australia didn't recognise any religious holidays.
 
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TommySix

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No new religious holidays and businesses should have the right to trade on existing religious holidays but must pay the appropriate penalty rates to all staff who may opt out.
 

justanotherposter

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And if the immigrants culture clashes with the interests of the majority, what is there to do?
Well then obviously you would override the interests of the minority.

It's not like these minorities have individual rights to conduct themselves according to their own standards, they gave those up when they got citizenship amirite??!
They must conform to the standards of the majority or go home!

wE gREw heRE yoU FleW herE!

/sarcasm. you fucking douche.
 
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^
or they can drink some concrete, harden the fuck up and take and take a annual leave day to celebrate their rapapadum.
 

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