Should Religous Schools Be Shut Down? (2 Viewers)

[_dhj_]

Schroe

If by "you" you're referring the the individual it's unrealistic to suppose that the individual can substantially change anything. We are all given a pack of genetic and material cards to play with and we all try to play our best hand although most fail to do so. Because of the established and accepted nature of religion the religious person can both perpetuate the religion and pursue individual interests by playing the same hand. The atheist on the other hand cannot due to imbalance between required effort and outcome. If by "you" you're referring to all atheists or the likes then you might be correct to a degree, but partly it's because most atheists despise the intrusive way in which religions go about their business.

edited a few times

 

[Matt1120]

It doesn't matter where they go, they're still dead. And they're dying for something which they can't prove it right or wrong until they are in fact dead. I'm sorry, but that's just ridiculous to me.

Look dont get me wrong i think there is sumthing really weird things bout religion... but if it gives people something to look forward to in life.. then whats the harm.....as i sed i aint a christian so i'm not trying to defend religion

 

[Enteebee]

Tbh I think Schro is on the money regarding you guys bitching about the religious groups, but at the same time it's kinda hard to compete against a 2000 year old organisation that permeates our society like bad american television.

 

[bassistx]

I'm going to keep bitching until people don't drop their mouths when you say "I'm atheist" or "I'm agnostic" and when they stop handing out those waste-of-trees flyers and stop knocking on my door.

EDIT: You still don't see the harm? It's brainwashing. You can't do anything in your life without thinking of God, the consequences, etc. You're living for someone or something else.

 

[_dhj_]

Good post. But its effect on the greater scheme of things is, like anything else, immaterial.

 

[Matt1120]

Religion has influence in every aspect of our lives whether we like it or not... we know that murder is wrong. where does that come from. we know cheating is bad...we know stealing is wrong.. our entire law system is basically based around relgion...it would be impossible to remove it from our view

 

[_dhj_]

Maybe not. That fact that you have conceeded it was good demonstrates it has, to some extent, effected your viewpoint.

That doesn't necessarily follow, though it was well expressed. There is nothing said that I explicitly disagree with. Only, the combination of ideas that flowed from his head struck the right chord.

 

[Enteebee]

Religion has influence in every aspect of our lives whether we like it or not... we know that murder is wrong. where does that come from. we know cheating is bad...we know stealing is wrong.. our entire law system is basically based around relgion...it would be impossible to remove it from our view

Nah religious texts are pretty much next to worthless when you're looking for a SOURCE of moral code imho. The bible says 'Thou shalt not kill', now does that mean we can't kill murderers? Does that mean we can't kill animals? Does that mean we can't kill in self defense? Does that mean euphanasia is wrong? Does that mean abortion is wrong? Such a 'simple' commandment leads to so many moral problems...

Now how do you come about with the answer to these questions? I'd argue through the same social/genetic considerations which lead to most other peoples moral decisions.

Even if you're a catholic and you say " I follow church doctrine ", you still have the problem of how you interpret that church doctrine or even how you know it's RIGHT to follow church doctrine.

 

[Matt1120]

yeah sry brain dead been writing essays all nite lol

 

[Enteebee]

Btw I really agree with Nolan's post and it's what I think we should be about... It's why I reject a lot of the hardline atheist dogma, I think a lot of us (somewhat uniquely) came about our beliefs through an extreme uncertainty and that's our greatest virtue.

 

[_dhj_]

What, are you just implicitly cautious?

Perhaps.

I'm not absolutely clear on whether you're suggesting that religious people are religious and atheists are "freethinkers", or that we ought to all become "freethinkers". If it is the former I'd disagree. My view is that essentially religious people are on the same philosophical level as atheists. The only problem is the structural marginalisation of atheists that ironically seems to be the evolutionary inevitability. In the end god's existence cannot be conclusively proven either way, and society ought to be ideally fair to those who are true to either beliefs (without exaggerating the extent of the unfairness). If it is the latter then it seems to be a lofty theoretical proposal tbh.

 

[Enteebee]

Perhaps.

I'm not absolutely clear on whether you're suggesting that religious people are religious and atheists are "freethinkers", or that we ought to all become "freethinkers". If it is the former I'd disagree. My view is that essentially religious people are on the same philosophical level as atheists. The only problem is the structural marginalisation of atheists that ironically seems to be the evolutionary inevitability. In the end god's existence cannot be conclusively proven either way, and society ought to be ideally fair to those who are true to either beliefs (without exaggerating the extent of the unfairness). If it is the latter then it seems to be a lofty theoretical proposal tbh.

I took what he said as saying that if you start a club for 'freethinking' people, you will get all the 'good' religious believers who probably are at the same philosophical level as the 'good' atheists and create a broad church against ignorance.

 

[Goji Berries]

Personally, I'm opposed to private schooling, because I do want any kids I have to be integrated into wider society and not think everybody thinks as I do.

HOWEVER...

I think parents should be deciding how they raise their children not the state. This includes the right to homeschooling, private schooling, schools that specialise in arts, sports, etc. Even though integration is a good idea, I'm wary of coerced attempts at harmony.

Also, at religious/cultural schools, they are environments which are predominant in one culture over another, but it's not as if they're totally removed from wider society. Most Christian schools for example accept a lot of non-Christian schools.

There are sheltered kids that exist but I think they would even if they went to public school. I don't think causing every child to go to public school will unshelter them. For example, some people of similar cultural backgrounds tend to congregate in certain suburbs (e.g. Muslims in Lakemba, Hillsongers in Baulkham Hills, etc.). If they all went to public schools, we'd probably just have some schools more of one cultural persuasion than others, and be back to the same "problem".

 

[Zrap]

Yeah then public education would pwn.

 

[_dhj_]

I took what he said as saying that if you start a club for 'freethinking' people, you will get all the 'good' religious believers who probably are at the same philosophical level as the 'good' atheists and create a broad church against ignorance.

They aren't mutually exclusive ideas. I will not go into details but the purpose of a "freethinker's club" would be closer to a philosophy or debating society, i.e. it would serve a different purpose.

 

[Enteebee]

They aren't mutually exclusive ideas. I will not go into details but the purpose of a "freethinker's club" would be closer to a philosophy or debating society, i.e. it would serve a different purpose.

and IMO that's where atheists should be, we shouldn't be opposing religion with the same sort of structures as religion.

 

[seano77]

Moving from a public to private religious school in Yr7 made a huge difference to my education and, I believe, my future. I had to literally re-tune my intellect when I came to a private school because everyone was so far ahead intellectually. I felt that, although the public school wasn't bad (it was one of the better ones, actually), going to a private school was a huge step up in the quality of resources and teaching. I know this is not the case in all schools.

I would also like to say that being a Christian or having a religious affiliation does not mean someone has a lesser ability to think 'freely', as atheists like to say. Its basically a nice way of saying: "I'm right and you're wrong. I think with an open mind and you don't". In fact, I would not be a Christian if there was not suitable evidence for it.

 

[_dhj_]

and IMO that's where atheists should be, we shouldn't be opposing religion with the same sort of structures as religion.

I'm not interested in taking the moral high ground against religions.
All we're doing is alleviating an under-representation of a large group. There are some aspects that we will never adopt from religions. This is what all societies aim to achieve - to create a community of like minded individuals.

 

[Enteebee]

I'm not interested in taking the moral high ground against religions.
All we're doing is alleviating an under-representation of a large group. There are some aspects that we will never adopt from religions. This is what all societies aim to achieve - to create a community of like minded individuals.

It's not about taking the moral high ground, it's about being genuinely a different group of people. I don't think 'freethinking' atheists are necessarily the type to join an insular group that claims to speak for them.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Its basically a nice way of saying: "I'm right and you're wrong. I think with an open mind and you don't". In fact, I would not be a Christian if there was not suitable evidence for it.

Well at least it's possible to be an atheist without saying "I'm right and you're wrong" about everything relating to a particular subject, whereas on the other hand you can't be a Christian without saying at a fundamental level that very thing you just accused atheists of saying.