State Rankings (2 Viewers)

[lyounamu]

hahaahaha. immediate family need to know cos they provide transport there? unless you take public transport and say "oh yea, i'm just going out for like 6-7 hrs today. bye"

And they will ask questions like "So why are you in the best suit and shined your shoes? And why did you spend 10+ hours getting yourself look good in front of mirror?"

 

[fallenstar]

WTF? Why can't you tell people? So the situation is like this:

Mum: Phone rang, it's for you.
Student: Hello
BOS Guy: I must be fast. This line may be tapped.
Student: Who is this?
BOS Guy: You are first in the state for community and family studies. While this award is nothing prestigious, as let's face it, you only beat people that do C&F, you must not tell anyone. Good day sir.
Mum: Who was that?
Student: No-one... Wrong number.

And then the kid looks over his shoulder for the rest of his life in case men in suits grab him on suspicion of telling his own mother about an award?

Hahaha.

Now, for the obligatory statement of equality: I would like to mention that attaining 1st in state for ANY subject is an achievement, whether it's CAFS or Physics. (I honestly believe this- and I have not done CAFS for my HSC.) Pretty effin' amazing. It's too bad that there exists a pervasive perception of certain subjects as more prestigious and demanding than others, when in reality, all require huge amounts of work (and talent) for a student to attain 1st in the state.

 

[dp624]

Hahaha.

Now, for the obligatory statement of equality: I would like to mention that attaining 1st in state for ANY subject is an achievement, whether it's CAFS or Physics. (I honestly believe this- and I have not done CAFS for my HSC.) Pretty effin' amazing. It's too bad that there exists a pervasive perception of certain subjects as more prestigious and demanding than others, when in reality, all require huge amounts of work (and talent) for a student to attain 1st in the state.

I believe for 4u Maths then it'd definitely talent. More so than other subjects.

And a lot of subjects have higher candidatured. Topping engadv is much harder than say, tamil continuers

 

[Trebla]

Um....parents are actually invited to the ceremony...LOL

I don't think they need to keep any secrets lol. It just so happens very few people who get 1st in the state are actually active in these forums, which is why this forum hardly sees any threads of someone screaming "I came first suckers!" lol

 

[fallenstar]

I believe for 4u Maths then it'd definitely talent. More so than other subjects.

That is so subjective. So you believe that for other subjects, people just memorise and regurgitate, like machines, with no talent? Talent is integral to excellence in any subject.

And a lot of subjects have higher candidatured. Topping engadv is much harder than say, tamil continuers

That's an extreme example, but I can understand what you're saying. It's when subjects which have large canditatures but are still regarded with less prestige, and when people denigrate those who have put the hard work into them by saying "That's not even a subject" due to their biased perceptions of 'intelligence' that it becomes frustrating and unfair.

 

[lyounamu]

That is so subjective. So you believe that for other subjects, people just memorise and regurgitate, like machines, with no talent? Talent is integral to excellence in any subject.



That's an extreme example, but I can understand what you're saying. It's when subjects which have large canditatures but are still regarded with less prestige, and when people denigrate those who have put the hard work into them by saying "That's not even a subject" due to their biased perceptions of 'intelligence' that it becomes frustrating and unfair.

Um...I lean towards dp624's comment.

I reckon it's definitely harder to come first in 4 Unit Mathematics than say, Society & Culture, hence the scaling reflects that.

 

[dp624]

That is so subjective. So you believe that for other subjects, people just memorise and regurgitate, like machines, with no talent? Talent is integral to excellence in any subject.

I'm not trying to take the oomph out of your achievements. In fact I'd be very happy for you. It's just that topping certain subjects with well-known "high scaling" would benefit your uai more than others. Take phys, chem, eco, maths. the top mark each year gets 100 scaled. For a lot of subjects it's barely 95, e.g. agriculture. Also, more people do them (i tihnk) so when you meet randoms down the street they'd probably be more "wow you topped MX1" and "huh wtf is PE? is that even academic?" even though PE is a large candidature subject. A lot of people considered not "academically competitive" do PE, it's seen as a subject for others. But congrats on any 1st in state regardless.
It's people who are jealous only that dont appreciate them

However I think that 4u maths is totally different. There's a whole new level of dedication to it. It;'s not really a subject you can try to rote leanr. takes a lot of effort. Noone had gotten full marks externally in hte last 10 years.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Smithereens]

Why would random people on the streets care about whether or not you topped MX1 or any subject. And if you were ask an ordinary Joe down the street, I daresay that they'd recognise PE as a subject over MX1.

 

[dp624]

Why would random people on the streets care about whether or not you topped MX1 or any subject. And if you were ask an ordinary Joe down the street, I daresay that they'd recognise PE as a subject over MX1.

Random HSC students you might meet, correction
cmon, let me use some figure of language here =P

 

[fallenstar]

I'm not trying to take the oomph out of your achievements. In fact I'd be very happy for you. It's just that topping certain subjects with well-known "high scaling" would benefit your uai more than others. Take phys, chem, eco, maths. the top mark each year gets 100 scaled. For a lot of subjects it's barely 95, e.g. agriculture. Also, more people do them (i tihnk) so when you meet randoms down the street they'd probably be more "wow you topped MX1" and "huh wtf is PE? is that even academic?" even though PE is a large candidature subject. A lot of people considered not "academically competitive" do PE, it's seen as a subject for others. But congrats on any 1st in state regardless.

I do agree that scaling plays a large part in general perceptions of subjects - as you mentioned the subjects which are capped do not attain such a high level of prestige due to their lower candidature and the quality of that candidature. It's when people argue that a state ranking in subjects such as Society & Culture and other humanities is comparatively easier to attain than in, say, Physics that it annoys me, as they are disregarding the equally large amount of work required to excel in the course. I'm not going to ramble on about the major work, plus the content workload, conceptual approach and all that jazz as perceptions ultimately depend on personal bias, not logic. Social conditioning effectively generates higher acclaim for the student who achieves highly in Chemistry as opposed to the student who excels in History - due to the struggles of Social Science to assert itself as a discipline of credibility and, ultimately, societal value.

However I think that 4u maths is totally different. There's a whole new level of dedication to it. It;'s not really a subject you can try to rote leanr. takes a lot of effort. Noone had gotten full marks externally in hte last 10 years.

Just my thoughts.

I have some friends who are brilliant at MX2 and worked hard to achieve that level. While they are naturally talented at Maths, I do agree that in this case, rote learning would not suffice in order to attain an E4. History Extension is quite similar - it is one thing to memorise historians and their arguments, but it is having a personal grasp of concepts, philosophy, literacy and historiography that makes it a subject which requires a high degree of talent. History Ext is, at a secondary level, a replica of a unit offered for Advanced Arts at Sydney Uni. (Ask Sonya-lee; her teacher designed the course and thought it was too difficult for Year 12 students.)

 

[dp624]

It's when people argue that a state ranking in subjects such as Society & Culture and other humanities is comparatively easier to attain than in, say, Physics that it annoys me, as they are disregarding the equally large amount of work required to excel in the course. I'm not going to ramble on about the major work, plus the content workload, conceptual approach and all that jazz as perceptions ultimately depend on personal bias, not logic. Social conditioning effectively generates higher acclaim for the student who achieves highly in Chemistry as opposed to the student who excels in History - due to the struggles of Social Science to assert itself as a discipline of credibility and, ultimately, societal value.,

I agree, any state rank is awesome work. Perhaps, however, one of the reasons why is that "science and maths" require a much different range of skills to social sciences. And really, tbh, sciences are more high profile than social sciences. E.g. einstein is a household name.
These 'science' skills tend to be viewed as higher. Perhaps not rightly so, but it's social conditioning as you said.
Yeah, i dont think any of us are shooting your achievements down. So don't bite our heads off! Congrats and good luck.

 

[tommykins]

sif apologise, science + math > all

 

[dp624]

sif apologise, science + math > all

I'm not apologising. I never shot it down in the first place.

 

[fallenstar]

Yeah, i dont think any of us are shooting your achievements down. So don't bite our heads off! Congrats and good luck.

Haha, I didn't mean to, I just got on my Social Sciences pedestal. Good luck to you too, and congrats on your achievements - top 5 at ruse is amazing

 

[Zephyrio]

dp, don't you think the sciences are SO rote-learned based these days that you'll do well if you spent heaps long on learning the content? As opposed to 4U or even 3U maths where you need some brain extension.

I definitely think that talent is required to get state ranks though. Does the fact that most people find 4U more challenging than modern history mean that it requires more talent? No, I wouldn't think so; just different forms. One is articulating in a numerical sense, the other is about construting free-flowing and logical arguments. They're different skills altogether, which is why it's hard to list the hardest subjects in which to top.

 

[dp624]

dp, don't you think the sciences are SO rote-learned based these days that you'll do well if you spent heaps long on learning the content? As opposed to 4U or even 3U maths where you need some brain extension.

I definitely think that talent is required to get state ranks though. Does the fact that most people find 4U more challenging than modern history mean that it requires more talent? No, I wouldn't think so; just different forms. One is articulating in a numerical sense, the other is about construting free-flowing and logical arguments. They're different skills altogether, which is why it's hard to list the hardest subjects in which to top.

Yes sciences are quite a bit of rotelearning. However the skill is knowing WHAT to rote learn =P. This is quite hard tbh.

TBH i find engadv harder than 4u maths. But probably because I'm not naturally good at english and have to work really hard to get the marks in it.

 

[Zephyrio]

Yes sciences are quite a bit of rotelearning. However the skill is knowing WHAT to rote learn =P. This is quite hard tbh.

TBH i find engadv harder than 4u maths. But probably because I'm not naturally good at english and have to work really hard to get the marks in it.

Actually yeah that's kinda true. I used to get so pissed off at chemistry because of this. Like I'd describe a battery right, to the point where I think I've gotten full marks. BUT NO I FIND THAT YOU HAD TO STATE THAT IT'S ABOUT CONVERTING POTENTIAL TO ELECTRICAL ENERGY TO GET THAT EXTRA 0.5 MARKS.

I found English to be so much easier than maths, esp. 3U. -.- Same reason as quothed above.

 

[Trebla]

HSC Science is really screwed. It's not even real science.

Uni science is the real deal....
In uni, you learn the pure science. None of that "impacts on society and the environment" shit you get in the HSC. For example, in uni Chemistry you learn HOW the reaction happens and be able to predict the product with given reactants rather than just memorise the reactants and products. In uni Physics, there is a lot more mathematics and calculus, with frequent use of vectors to derive results, much like Mechanics in Maths Ext2.

 

[iEdd]

Oh good. I've always thought we are getting a little old to be saying "so mr scientist is really good and good impact because he gives electricity to all the mummies and daddies so that us kids can get our sesame street on TV." 5/5

 

[fallenstar]

I definitely think that talent is required to get state ranks though. Does the fact that most people find 4U more challenging than modern history mean that it requires more talent? No, I wouldn't think so; just different forms. One is articulating in a numerical sense, the other is about construting free-flowing and logical arguments. They're different skills altogether, which is why it's hard to list the hardest subjects in which to top.

I completely agree.

Oh good. I've always thought we are getting a little old to be saying "so mr scientist is really good and good impact because he gives electricity to all the mummies and daddies so that us kids can get our sesame street on TV." 5/5

Hahaha, I didn't know that was even a part of HSC Science? "Impact on society & environment" seems like it belongs in the SC syllabus.