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Summer clerkships 2009/2010 (2 Viewers)

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I can't help but feel less employable after all of this
Don't feel like that.I've lurked on this thread for the past few weeks and I know exactly what you guys are going through (except you people with the interviews at every firm ;).) I'm going to explain the story at the other end which you don't really hear (because this doesn't really get featured in the shiny glossy brochures, and no one asks the rejected applicant for interview tips =P)

Law firms have a particular culture and they are looking for a very specific type of personality in these things (despite what the propaganda tells you) and they have like 1000 applications to cull through. Not everyone is going to be a Jessup mooter with paralegal experience at a Big 6 from a private school/top selective with a WAM over 80 and are a leader for some university activity and have gone on exchange. but yes, those people will stand out. The firms will grab those people first. It's to their benefit. Those people do not make up most of the legal profession, but at this early stage of your career, those are the people who will get interviews and will probably get a clerkship. Why? Not because they're necessarily "better" or have a better personality, but they probably get along well enough with the interviewer, and have good enough marks, and the firms want to snaffle them up first before their other competitor. For everyone else - you look at the brochures and you think "yeah, my marks are decent, I have a personality, i have a job, i do things outside uni". The problem is, the majority of the applicants are in the same position. So it's a matter of luck, of having that one thing that law firms look for - and we're not in a position to know what that thing is. it could be schools, the right work experience, the fact that the HR read the letter when they were in a good mood, it might be marks - they read that cover letter you spent hours over in like 2 mins (if that).

I felt exactly the same last year (4 interviews @ HDY, Middletons, Allens & Corrs). I was sooo into the process and I felt that I really did belong at each firm after the Info night/interview. (Except middletons; that breakfast was weird.) I got through to 1 second round @ HDY. Didn't get that offer. Felt like crap the weekend after - and skipped class the first day because I didn't want to hear people talking about which firm they wanted to go to etc etc. Had no idea why I didn't get it - I certainly had all the things they said they required - uni extracurricular in a variety of things, decentish marks (credit/distinction average), community legal centre experience, steady part time job, and I'm not an android. I didn't say the wrong firm in the interview or insult the firm. I asked for feedback each time I got rejected and not one firm gave me a specific reason.

Allens said it was because the other candidates had really interesting experiences and whilst there was nothing "bad" in my feedback, it was just a matter of numbers and that they just couldn't not let the others through. HDY said it was that I just seemed nervous and didn't articulate myself as clearly as I could have done. Corrs didn't call back.

I applied for an in house legal job in the summer (as a lot of my friends were away or working) and I got the second job I interviewed for (the first being a paralegal assistant role at Clutz that was filled internally). it was probably the best thing that happened. As it turned out, HDY didn't offer to all clerks; and a few of my friends didn't get grad offers at other firms; and the GFC started to actually affect grad positions. Meanwhile, I was getting real legal experience (as in, I do things that a solicitor does at work - under supervision, of course) and I just got offered a full time solicitor role there next year after I finish College of Law. I will work regular office hours (i.e. about 40 hrs a week), my company (NOT being a service firm) has work/life balance, and the pay is comparable to other grad positions. Sure it sucked not being part of the clerkship circuit, and seeing my friends' photo with their xmas party on fb, and seeing notifications like "5 of your friends have joined the 'Freehills Summer Clerks' group", but in the scheme of things, it isn't that big a deal.

Moral of story - this experience is NOT the be all and end all of your legal career. It probably won't even affect you much in the bigger picture. It will suck in the short term, but everyone gets rejected at some point in their lives. It's probably the first time ever for you, if you've made it this far. If you really want to spend your life working in a legal firm in M&A, you will probably get there if you really want it, just not now. It might take a few years more. My point is that law firms WILL reject people who are just as competent, personable and intelligent as the ones who will be accepted. their processes aren't perfect. But do not take it as a measure of what you're worth as a lawyer, because it's not. It's more a measure of whether you were lucky enough to establish enough rapport with the partner who interviewed you to barrack for you in the meeting, and who will be able to sacrifice you for the other applicant.

I thought I wouldn't ever get employed after the summer clerkship process last year. I also thought I was a crap law student. I thought i was really stupid. I don't think I interviewed badly (though admittedly, I didn't interview at my best, because I was trying so hard). In hindsight, a year after, I still maintain that I was worthy of a clerkship. How did I get a job on my 2nd post-clerkship interview otherwise? Yes, maybe I did clean up my CV and I was well practised at that stage, but I think it was because I was myself in the interview and wasn't trying so hard. (there were also about 60 applicants applying for my job as well, and it was only advertised at 2 unis - so it's not like it was that I was the only person applying for the job and they were that desperate).

Advice to everyone - don't take it too seriously. Not because it isn't important (because it does help you) but because you have a higher chance of success if you relax and let the interviewer see who you really are as a person. But if you don't get it, you have another 30-40 years in your career. And it might be the best thing that happened. Rejection makes you really think about what you want to do - and it makes you a much stronger person. And if you get rejected? You're not the only one. Go out, buy/borrow "Pinstriped Prison" by Lisa Pryor and keep applying for the other legal jobs out there. Don't lose hope. Congraulate those who got the jobs, but don't assume they're necessarily better than you. You guys are in a tough market at the moment, but hang in there.

Okay, that turned out a bit longer than I anticipated. Good luck all. :)
 
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Well, you could just as easily be describing me except I didn't get interviews for those firms :p. I went to the Corrs evening, and I'm not normally that shy, but I definitely was on that evening. And yeah, it's likely a lot of my answers were monosyllabic!

I think you may have just been a little too quick to judge this person. It's not as if he was going out of his way to show off that he had interviews with those firms.
That's the whole point. HR are quick to judge us on what we look like on paper and interviewers are quick to judge us on how well we would 'fit' into the firm. It's all about snap judgments and if we get rejected we can't get too hung up on it.
 

Libbster

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I'm the opposite. I was so worked up about it during the application phase and pretty gutted when the rejections started coming in.

But I had a bit of an epiphany at the Corrs night. There was this guy sitting next to me and he was just completely socially retarded. He sat there for 4hrs giving these monosyllabic answers to the grad who was trying to strike up a conversation with him. At the end, when he was pressed for what interviews he had, he mumbled something about Allens, Malles, Freehills, Blakes blah blah blah.

All of a sudden the rejections didn't sting so much because I saw the type of douche that I was being passed over for. I just think we need to stop being so critical of ourselves. Take a bit of pride in the fact that we have jobs, play sport, go out etc.
qft
 

twistedtigers

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I know this will kill a lot of you, but you need to remember there are bottom tier firms out there too when you graduate.

Sure, they don't have the prestige, gym memberships or the money - but you'll get varied experience, will probably be given a lot more responsibility than in a top tier with a clear heirarchy and if you knuckle down and learn the job, there is plenty of time to move on post admission - AND most bottom tier firms expect you to walk out at 5pm - hence one of the reasons the money is lower - you actually get a life.

I've worked in bottom tier firms as a paralegal and have watched quite a few of those lawyers end up in top tier firms - some are now in magistrate positions. It may have taken them longer to get there, but it is still possible.

Your life isn't over just because you don't get the wanky positions with all the glory.

So good luck with it all and don't lose all hope!
 

flamearrows

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AAR second round offers are out - I have mine on Wednesday the 23rd.

Haven't heard from anyone else yet.

Also, I take a bit of offense at this:

uniqueusername said:
All of a sudden the rejections didn't sting so much because I saw the type of douche that I was being passed over for. I just think we need to stop being so critical of ourselves. Take a bit of pride in the fact that we have jobs, play sport, go out etc.
I have a job, I play sport, though I admittedly don't 'go out' in the sense you're probably talking about. I don't really think the fact that you were passed over and I wasn't makes me a douche, though I may be able to claim the accolade for different reasons.
 
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rubin

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Hey charlie_charlie
Nice story, its great to hear another perspective on the whole process. I agree that people can get a little too swept up in the clerkship race - it seems like a prize/trophy to be sought rather than a means to a well-paid but time consuming job. I hope all those that miss out dont take it to heart. Its not a reflection on you as a person or your potential lawyering ability. Best of luck to everyone.
 

TehAzner

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Hey charlie_charlie
Nice story, its great to hear another perspective on the whole process. I agree that people can get a little too swept up in the clerkship race - it seems like a prize/trophy to be sought rather than a means to a well-paid but time consuming job. I hope all those that miss out dont take it to heart. Its not a reflection on you as a person or your potential lawyering ability. Best of luck to everyone.
I agree with your statment Rubin. I'd also like to thank Charlie_charlie for that insightful post. Now I know a bit more of what to expect in a few years time when I graduate from my degree.
 

flamearrows

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Corrs second round offers are out. There is overlap already between cocktail evenings for the firms.
 

fabulouz

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has anyone heard back from minters or blakes yet? does anyone know when we're supposed to hear back from them?
 

jake1987

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Congrats flamearrows. Did you they call or email you to let you know you got the second round interview?
 

LA88

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Most firms, include Blakes, will release second round offers on Thursday and Friday.
 

flamearrows

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Congrats flamearrows. Did you they call or email you to let you know you got the second round interview?
Email from Corrs, SMS (lol) from AAR.

Both firms are calling to follow up, but not until the end of the week I think.
 

mitsui

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Congras everyone!

My turn is here also! First round interview at Lovells HK.

God, I am nervous. :mad1:
 

goan_crazy

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hey haven't posted on here in ages
I got a no to HDY last week :(
did anyone on here get HDY 2nd round? blackacre?

congrats flamearrows on getting through to 2 second rounds
sucks u got clashes already though!

how r u going with your 2nd rounds hypertrophy?

Mel did u hear back from slater & gordon?

does anyone know when minters gets back to us?

haha ive asked a lot of questions

I was starting to lose hope but i heard back from that marketing internship interview i went for last monday- the group one
ive made it through to the 5th stage- yes 5th!! individual interview

they don't like giving us these internships easily do they
such a painful process!
 

LA88

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A friend heard from Bakers today so people should receive an email soon...
 

flamearrows

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Yeah, Bakers are calling people. Rejection strikes at last for me, though I was probably the least enthused about them of all the firms.

ETA: Email from Clutz just came through as well, so I'm 3 for 4
 
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