The Abortion Debate (continued) (2 Viewers)

[robo-andie]

you do realise that more than half of those rapes are male on male in prison right? because i read an article that alledged that currently more men are raped in prison in america than women outside of prison.

edit: 250 000 male inmates raped a year, note that this isnt number of assults which is what female rape figures are based upon[ most of which are one off] but number of inmates who are raped, most of which are raped regularly.
http://www.spr.org/

You do realise that I was not including male rape cases.

 

[robo-andie]

Nope, not her life, not her genes or body, not her choice.

yes her body, yes her life, yes her genes - definitely her choice.

The baby grows within her, affects her life and contains her genes.
She is the very reason the baby can grow, she deserves the right to choose if she should allow it to live or not.

 

[bshoc]

yes her body, yes her life, yes her genes - definitely her choice.

The baby grows within her, affects her life and contains her genes.
She is the very reason the baby can grow, she deserves the right to choose if she should allow it to live or not.

Nobody has that right towards any life other than their own, the life belongs to the child not to her, the child's genes may be related but they are of a unique person that is not her, and its certainly not her body that is in question.

 

[robo-andie]

Nobody has that right towards any life other than their own, the life belongs to the child not to her, the child's genes may be related but they are of a unique person that is not her, and its certainly not her body that is in question.

So you don't support war or the killing of animals?


edit: I need to leave now, I don't think I'll have much of a chance to get online for awhile. It's been interesting.

 

[Serius]

You do realise that I was not including male rape cases.

fair enough, now try and justify your figures based on abortion rates. Hey wow, in most states of america abortions are banned! so really your figures are useless amirite?

The baby doesnt contain only her genes alone, it isnt her body in question, its the body growing inside of her. It isnt her life that will be destroyed by suction.

 

[wce06]

our government even considers australia to be a little underpopulated, we need a larger workforce to push the ecconomy and we dont have the population to do it.
.

So because the government wants to crank up the workforce a bit, women should just produce more babies and fulfil their role as factories?
people are not units that the government can just decide to increase so that their economic indicators can look a bit better. Admittedly, our inflation and recent interest rate rises are due to limited productive capacity relative to our demand, but a larger workforce isn't the answer to this; more efficient production is.

You're saying that abortions are killing economic growth, and so the state should whip women into shape and make them churn out as many babies as possible, regardless of whether they're wanted or not, because hey, they'll increase our workforce.

 

[Serius]

So because the government wants to crank up the workforce a bit, women should just produce more babies and fulfil their role as factories?
you sick bastard, people are not units that the government can just decide to increase so that their economic indicators can look a bit better. Admittedly, our inflation and recent interest rate rises are due to limited productive capacity relative to our demand, but a larger workforce isn't the answer to this; more efficient production is.

You're saying that abortions are killing economic growth, and so the state should whip women into shape and make them churn out as many babies as possible, regardless of whether they're wanted or not, because hey, they'll increase our workforce. Did you know that Hitler gave out medals to women who gave birth to more than 4 children if the father was in the SS?

Godwin's Law
thankyou very much the arguement and thread is now over because i win. Run along and go tell everyone that abortions cannot be morally justified all because of you.

 

[Generator]

Everyone, debate the points and keep your arguments under control.

 

[wce06]

Godwin's Law
thankyou very much the arguement and thread is now over because i win. Run along and go tell everyone that abortions cannot be morally justified all because of you.

OK point taken with that Law, sorry. Can i edit it out and let the debate continue...?

 

[dieburndie]

fair enough, now try and justify your figures based on abortion rates. Hey wow, in most states of america abortions are banned! so really your figures are useless amirite?
.

That's not true. Roe Vs. Wade established that any state laws banning abortion were unconstitutional. It's legal in some form in every state, though many impose severe restrictions.

 

[Serius]

OK point taken with that Law, sorry. Can i edit it out and let the debate continue...?

yeah, edit out some of the rhetoric whilst you are at it because that wasnt what i was implying at all. We all know the government are pushing aggresively for more births with massive monatary rewards, childcare little policies like " have one for you, one for your husband and one for the government" this doesnt mean they beleive women are baby factories[well maybe they do, but they mean it in the nicest possible way ]

the fact is abortions cut into our population growth, and they cannot be justified by saying we are overpopulated.

 

[otay]

I do not wish to have a child yet and will only have sex with girls that want an abortion (of course using protection and all that) until I and the girl wish to start a family.

You may say it's murder, but if you vote Howard and or support the War in Iraq, Hezbollah, Israel, not using stem cell, drink drive, smoke around others that don't, emit fucking greenhouse gases...all which are killing ppl or have the potential too, then your morals don't mean shit to me.

 

[wce06]

the fact is abortions cut into our population growth, and they cannot be justified by saying we are overpopulated.

I agree entirely with that, abortions should never happen on the premise that there's too many people already.

 

[bshoc]

So you don't support war

Who in their right mind supports war for the fuck of it? In defence, yes, and between irrelevant countries, I dont so much care about. War however is built into the human psyche and the international system itself, its hard to avoid.

or the killing of animals?

Humans>Other Animals - still I support animal rights and RSPCA more than most people in this country.

 

[otay]

Who in their right mind supports war for the fuck of it? In defence, yes, and between irrelevant countries, I dont so much care about. War however is built into the human psyche and the international system itself, its hard to avoid.

Abortion is bad "yet between irrelevant countries, (war) I dont so much care about". Awesome morals.

And are you kidding, ppl don't support war? Where have you been hiding? Utopia doesn't really exist (although Monaco is very close to it).

 

[SamTan*06*]

*fixt*
Appealing to emotion does nothing for your argument, and just proves how weak your argumentative stance is.

Quite clearly it's not purposeless, it serves a need, both a social and a medical one.

You do realise the majority of terminations are performed on creatures that cannot make it to full term because of severe deformities, of if they did make it to full term, would not survive labour and would quite possibly kill the birthing parent.

How is this 'slaughter'?

I half agree. Yes, if the child is to be deformed, and possible only live for a few painful moments, or even if they were to live a life only as a vegitable, abortion would be considered (i think) as resonable, as science could then use to damaged feotis to find a cure for futre situations. BUT using abortion purely as a contraception is dumb. Why take away a life that has as much right to live as u or I do?

 

[wce06]

I half agree. Yes, if the child is to be deformed, and possible only live for a few painful moments, or even if they were to live a life only as a vegitable, abortion would be considered (i think) as resonable, as science could then use to damaged feotis to find a cure for futre situations. BUT using abortion purely as a contraception is dumb. Why take away a life that has as much right to live as u or I do?

Absolutely right especially with the bolded phrase; abortion should never be used instead of condoms, the pill etc purely as contraception. It is still preferable, though, to unwanted/deformed births.

 

[kami]

Fetuses aren't dead, and theres only one other state of life other than "dead" - take a wild guess.

bshoc, is your computer dead or alive?

No she doesent, no man may own another, we abolished slavery some time ago you see.

Then why do you (or the foetus) have the right to dictate what a free woman may do with her body?

The rights of the unborn child greatly outweigh those of the mother.

Why is that exactly?

You support the death of children for convinience of irresponsible and stupid people

This wasn't adressed toward me, however I thought it important to point out that being pro-choice does not neccesarily mean you even have to approve of abortion. Rather it can mean you believe that each person should have the legal right to decide for themselves what ideological stance (and hence action) they will take regarding their own individual situation. When you say things such as 'pro-abortion', that suggests people who think abortion is the best solution which is rather different.



On another more pertinent note, does anyone know where all these numbers of Australian abortions are coming from? I'm finding it a tad puzzling since its been established earlier on in the thread that miscarriages and abortions weren't differentiated in reports and no links were given either.

 

[Calculon]

Adoption. Prevention.

Murder is a pretty drastic last resort.

Also, do you support the murdering of orphans? You must if you claim to be logically consistent.

1. Not murder, as abortion is lawful in Australia.
2. Orphan analogy depends on what point the poster defines the foetus as being alive.

 

[bshoc]

Abortion is bad "yet between irrelevant countries, (war) I dont so much care about". Awesome morals.

Well I'm not exactly a citizen or voter (if applicable) in those "other countries" .. thus its irrelevant to talk about it.

And are you kidding, ppl don't support war? Where have you been hiding? Utopia doesn't really exist (although Monaco is very close to it).

People don't support war just becuase it is a war, they have other reasons.