The Abortion Debate (continued) (2 Viewers)

[Capitalist Scum]

Sperm and egg are genetically identical to the person they come from, a fetus is a unique being upon itself.

And personhood is both sebjective and irrelevant, the fact that a person will develop from a fetus unless tampered should be reason enough to protect it from the abortionists vacuum tube.

So if you lose a finger it's ok for me to maul you with a chainsaw, because you're no longer a whole person?

 

[bshoc]

I like it when you make words up. Reading your posts is like doing a find-a-word.

Forgiveness oh keeper of the dictionary, this is the internet, not a spelling exam.

 

[Capitalist Scum]

Sperm and egg are genetically identical to the person they come from, a fetus is a unique being upon itself.

And personhood is both sebjective and irrelevant, the fact that a person will develop from a fetus unless tampered should be reason enough to protect it from the abortionists vacuum tube.

Someone's obviously never heard of a miscarriage.

 

[Capitalist Scum]

Forgiveness oh keeper of the dictionary, this is the internet, not a spelling exam.

Or you could just use a real browser with a spell checker integrated that highlights shit in red when you invent words in your posts. It's not that hard.

 

[bshoc]

So if you lose a finger it's ok for me to maul you with a chainsaw, because you're no longer a whole person?

What? A fetus is a whole person at an early stage of development, sperm and egg are simply parts of people.

 

[bshoc]

Someone's obviously never heard of a miscarriage.

So the fact that some people die makes it ok to kill all people?

 

[Capitalist Scum]

What? A fetus is a whole person at an early stage of development, sperm and egg are simply parts of people.

You without a finger is not a whole you, just a component of you.

 

[bshoc]

You without a finger is not a whole you, just a component of you.

exactly, whereas abortion does destroy "the whole you"

 

[Capitalist Scum]

So the fact that some people die makes it ok to kill all people?

The fact that some sperm will not fertilise an egg makes it ok to ejaculate all sperm into a tissue?

 

[Capitalist Scum]

exactly, whereas abortion does destroy "the whole you"

And ejaculating into a tissue is the same thing as mauling an amputee with a chainsaw. What's your point, murderer?

 

[katie_tully]

A fetus is a whole person at an early stage of development

Not really. Lung development doesn't really start until close to the end of trimester two. What is a baby without a set of functioning lungs?

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

exactly, whereas abortion does destroy "the whole you"

Except that a clump of cells does not count as "whole you"
An abortion destroys a 'thing' not a 'person'.

 

[HotShot]

Except that a clump of cells does not count as "whole you"
An abortion destroys a 'thing' not a 'person'.

That 'thing' has the potential to be person. I dont understand why you need to have abortion? Even if you bad financial state - you can always give the baby to an orphanage.

Why should someone else suffer for ones mistakes?

 

[dagwoman]

How about being shamed by your family and community for being pregnant out of wedlock? Or the emotional and physical trauma of a pregnancy, let alone an unwanted one? Or the emotional trauma of giving a child up for adoption? What about a woman with five other children, who can't afford to raise another child? Her children will have to experience the pain of their mother's unwanted pregnancy and the adoption of the baby, who they will never know.

There are so many reasons why people need abortions.

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

That 'thing' has the potential to be person. I dont understand why you need to have abortion? Even if you bad financial state - you can always give the baby to an orphanage.

Why should someone else suffer for ones mistakes?

that's the thing- its not someone else. its nothing.

 

[HotShot]

How about being shamed by your family and community for being pregnant out of wedlock? Or the emotional and physical trauma of a pregnancy, let alone an unwanted one? Or the emotional trauma of giving a child up for adoption? What about a woman with five other children, who can't afford to raise another child? Her children will have to experience the pain of their mother's unwanted pregnancy and the adoption of the baby, who they will never know.

There are so many reasons why people need abortions.

But whose fault is it? and why should someone else pay the price for your mistakes?


Emotional trauma comes with everything and is no excuse. Are you telling me there is no emotional trauma with an abortion? If you can afford to have another child - stop having sex and if you have a child - give it away for adoption. Better yet find a way to survive. There are people out there living for less than a dollar.

that's the thing- its not someone else. its nothing.

Thats you perception and not everyone shares that perception. How can you say its nothing? when it can lead to someone who could change the world? imagine if Einstein was aborted? We wouldnt have a nuclear bomb!

 

[gerhard]

Thats your perception and not everyone shares that perception.

Well this is exactly what the argument comes down to. I hate how everyone beats around the bush. This is the issue. If you believe an embryo is a human life of the same stature to that of a living human being, or if it is not equal in status to a living human being.

How can you say its nothing? when it can lead to someone who could change the world?

me not wearing a condom one day could lead to someone who could change the world, doesnt mean wearing a condom is wrong. same with me one day raping a girl could lead to someone who could change the world. that doesnt mean not raping people is wrong.

 

[dagwoman]

But whose fault is it? and why should someone else pay the price for your mistakes?

It's no ones fault. Most of the time it's an accident- that's no ones fault. Who else is paying? It's the removal of a very underdeveloped clump of cells from a woman's body, a procedure that should be her choice alone.

Emotional trauma comes with everything and is no excuse. Are you telling me there is no emotional trauma with an abortion? If you can afford to have another child - stop having sex and if you have a child - give it away for adoption. Better yet find a way to survive. There are people out there living for less than a dollar.

Of course there's emotional trauma with an abortion. In any situation where there is an unwanted pregnancy, there is trauma, however in most cases, abortion causes the least. People who can't afford to have a child and get pregnant haven't done it on purpose- that should be obvious. Giving it up for adoption is all well and good until you put yourself in the position of the woman who then has to endure 9+ months of emotional and physical trauma from pregnancy and its after-effects, as well as having to give up a baby. I don't see what your point is about people living for less than a dollar.

The fact is that no matter how diligent and careful people are, accidents happen. Unwanted pregnancies happen. Safe, legal abortions need to be available to women, because they will be carried out whether the law supports them or not. However, if the law does not support them, women will be forced to have backyard abortions, causing many unnecessary deaths.

 

[HotShot]

It's no ones fault. Most of the time it's an accident- that's no ones fault. Who else is paying? It's the removal of a very underdeveloped clump of cells from a woman's body, a procedure that should be her choice alone.

An accident is someone's fault. one person or another was negligent. It cant just happen just like that, someone was lazy or someone was stupid. Thats why accidents happen - because someone was not up to it.

Of course there's emotional trauma with an abortion. In any situation where there is an unwanted pregnancy, there is trauma, however in most cases, abortion causes the least. People who can't afford to have a child and get pregnant haven't done it on purpose- that should be obvious. Giving it up for adoption is all well and good until you put yourself in the position of the woman who then has to endure 9+ months of emotional and physical trauma from pregnancy and its after-effects, as well as having to give up a baby. I don't see what your point is about people living for less than a dollar.

You cant measure emotions, its simply impossible, one persons emotions to one particular incident will be different to anothers. Each persons has been brought up in a different environment there is no way everyone will be happy with an abortion.

Its done on purpose - fact is they know sex has the purpose of reproduction. They know if it doesnt go as planned the female will get pregnant - why take the risk? when you know the consequences?

With everything comes a consequence - life is tough - live with it. Its bit robbing a bank and then expecting a lighter sentence because - u suffer from trauma of being caught. The person knows if they are caught robbing they will be punished, but they continue anyway? - It may been an accident how they are caught - but its still their fault.

There are people living with less than a dollar and are able to bring babies in countries where there no welfare systems at all. In Australia we have a good welfare system compared to other countries and solid medical system as well. If someone's says they can bring up in child because of financials problems - I will srs laugh at their face! Its an excuse and a crap one.

The fact is that no matter how diligent and careful people are, accidents happen. Unwanted pregnancies happen. Safe, legal abortions need to be available to women, because they will be carried out whether the law supports them or not. However, if the law does not support them, women will be forced to have backyard abortions, causing many unnecessary deaths.

Unwanted pregnancies - dont happen just like that - they happen someone had sex - and they knew of the risks involved and still continued to have sex. Had they been smarter they would have not had sex at all - if pregnancy was a real issue.
Exactly - but you dont se people avoiding the consequences of one. An abortion is simple an inhumane way of dealing with a problems.

I agree that safe/legal abortion need to be avaiable and I agree under some circumstances abortion need to be carried - but I believe they should not be available to everyone who claims 'they cant afford another baby' or 'that they wont be able to handle the extra stress'.

 

[dagwoman]

So you're saying if you're not prepared to raise a child, be celibate? Sorry, but that's just not realistic. If that was realistic, there would be a hell of a lot less sex. Accidents aren't anyone's fault- that's why they're accidents. Condoms break, pills fail. Even in the case where a pregnancy is due to "negligence" e.g. not using a condom, the woman should still have the right to have an abortion, and not have to be forced to deal with "the consequences" by raising a child.

People who go to have abortions don't simply do so because they don't "feel like" having a baby, as you've implied. An abortion is a serious, irreversable decision that no one makes flippantly. I don't think anyone would be able to make such a decision flippantly, and if someone was able to, they certainly shouldn't be responsible for raising a child.

While I don't necessarily agree with it, I'm more able to understand your point of having safe, legal abortions, but enforcing some further requirements. However, the reality is that there are already serious requirements. In reality, the only reason women in NSW are able to have abortions are due to a technicality in the law, which states that abortion is illegal except in the case of "any economic, social or medical ground or reason upon which a doctor could base an honest and reasonable belief that an abortion was required to avoid a serious danger to the pregnant woman's life or to her physical or mental health."

The following is an outline of abortion laws in NSW:

http://www.fpahealth.org.au/sex-matters/factsheets/63.html