The Abortion Debate... (2 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

However i believe somewhere there it also showed that 86% of all abortions are for social reasons such as ( i don't wan't it), not because of rape or endangerment of health....

 

[girlanachronism]

that's where i got my information from about abortion limits and such girlanachronism,
don't you think there should be a limit tho... like i think 12 weeks should be the limit...

The reason why yours probably didn't seem to have as much blood is because you got to your fairly early, u said 5-6 weeks didn't you? however by around 12-14 weeks the baby can feel pain...

That video i believe was a baby of 12-14 weeks... something along those lines.

I do think there should be a general limit, however there are two main problems with this:

1) often women do not find out until abt 20 weeks that they child may be intellectually handicapped, and judge them as you might, some women do not want to have to turn their whole life around to look after their child, which is what having an intellectually handicapped child entails.

2) this is rare of course, but sometimes it's found late in the pregnancy that carrying the child to term will physically harm or kill the mother. this is a really grey area as you're basically choosing between yourself and your child, however i do believe there should be the option for women to make this decision.

I didnt think the fetus could feel pain up until about 20 weeks, however it does have reflexes by this time? That was the impression I was under?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

it actually starts having nervous responses by around 8 weeks, and can feel pain APPARENTLY by as Early as 12 weeks, but it definately occurs somewhere between 12-14 weeks...

I agree with both the points you made, like.. this is where i think it becomes a problem, it's hard to distinguish because each circumstance is different.

Can i ask what they did when you went in for your abortion? i'm assuming they performed an ultrasound to begin with, did u get to see this ultrasound or was it offered or anything?

 

[girlanachronism]

ok, this is basically the story in dot points

- i was getting stomach cramping and my period was late so i bought a home pregnancy kit. there were two in the kit. one said yes and one said no.
- i freaked the hell out and went to see a doctor. the results came in and it was a yes.
- i freaked the hell out.
- now there's basically 3-4 days of me freaking the hell out and crying. i then wound up telling a teacher about it. i was a couple of weeks over 16 so they didn't have to tell my parents. they did however have to tell the principal. i got sat down with her and the school counsellor and we discussed options. i said i didn't want to keep it, i couldn't, i didn't have the means and i didn't want to have to leave school.
- i then went to the doctor and got myself referred to the specialist the school counsellor recommended.
- when i went in to see them, i had to have an interview and explain why i felt i needed this procedure done. as i was (and am) young they were fairly understanding.
- they then examined me and asked me if i wanted to see an ultrasound. to be honest i didn't, but i thought i had to be certain about what i was doing so i got one done anyway. they told me what i would need to bring and do (ie not eat for approx 6 hours beforehand)
- i arranged to go back about 3 days later as it was a pupil free day. once there i sat down with a counsellor and discussed how i was feeling etc. basically she also prepped me on what would happen and how long it would take and made sure i was absolutely certain it was what i wanted to do
- then they just about knocked me out and i woke up fully about 30 minutes later. they asked if i wanted to see my baby and i said yes. they showed me and it was sad and gross but i knew i'd done the right thing
- i then received brief counselling afterwards with the offer of coming back in a few days time if i needed help.

and that's about it.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

wait they showed u the remains of ur baby....?
That's gross if you ask me...

 

[girlanachronism]

it was, but i asked them to. they wouldn't have if i didn't say yes.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well that's incredibly sad, i feel sorry for you having to live with that, i understand that you don't REGRET it but i'm sure it's still a sad thing.

 

[ur_inner_child]

wow, girlanachronism, you're so brave. you have my admiration, really. i must sound stupid because i seriously have no words to say, but having admiration for how brave you were to go through that.



I suppose they ask you if you want to see your baby because some people need that kind of visual clarification. Same way some people can't come to terms with the fact that someone they loved died until the funeral.

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

in the vac method my tutor told me u need visual clarification..

cos if it were done with a backyard method.. the child can be mentalli handicapped and the mother sterile forever..

with girlanachronism i think that its truth we hav to face.. 16 yr olds are only learning responsibility and she did quite a few things to prevent it.. she made a decision tat i too think was brave.. I think abortions are a necessary evil but if my sister or gf got pregs.. i think id talk to them first about the consequences.. so with Abbott's stance I think he like me shouldnt force his ideologies on others..

some of us feel its not normal but we live in a soc that respects others and tolerance is the many point .. i hate that in the US abortion doctors are murdered becos they are doing a job that ppl need.. ppl need to separate the person from the professional

if i did one id feel sorrow.. but the fact is we live with our decisions and morals.. if its a life let me be condemned to hell.. but i did wat i felt is right

 

[Not-That-Bright]

yes however in america the abortionists that were killed were doing partial birth abortions....
while i don't condone murder in my eyes they were definately murdering babies...

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

two wrongs dun make it right..
I realise.. but if it wasnt illegal then there is lil to do..prior to 2003 in the US that is..

change the law makers not those who just do a job.. but id say that its a fairly gut renchin procedures regardless of method.. heard a couple of docs are counselled regularly.. esp those that do abortions..

 

[crazyhomo]

WTF. Those foetuses WERE aborted!

btw, i'm referring to your entire contribution to this thread with the following:

you aren't very bright

 

[superbird]

Arguments by Crazyhomo:

ummmm...those were pictures of foetuses, not pictures of abortions. you do understand the difference, right?

i wont bother to explain how stupid this statement is. The pictures show the end result of abortions and are not merely pictures of foetuses.

that, and the fact you can't argue any valid points

we have yet to see you argue anything valid

coz doctors never misdiagnose diseases, especially with fetuses in the womb which are so easy to examine

You obviously live in a fantasy world if you think doctors are perfect and NEVER misdiagnose disease, which you are clearly mistaken.

you know that having a beating heart does not mean you have working lungs, right? the lungs develop late as, you know, they are kinda useless inside a womb

Sure it has a heart beat, doesnt mean its alive right . You obviously think that a person is alive only when they are breathing. What happens if they go into a temporarty coma or drowned but can be revived. Would you pronounce them dead cause they cannot breathe?
You inadvertely implied that a baby is useless in a womb because it has no proper organs?? Lets not get into the ethical and moral side of this statement. You probably dont have any respect for human life.

So before you acuse someone of not being so bright I suggest you look at what YOU have said throughout this entire thread....

 

[crazyhomo]

omg, you really are an idiot. seriously, you are just digging yourself deeper.

1) you are trying to say that a foetus is the same thing as an abortion. how do you even know those pictures were from aborted foetuses? for all you know they were miscarriages

2) i love irony. especially how in order to 'prove' i have no valid points you had to ignore the majority of my posts and go back 10 pages

3) maybe you should look up this. if you are uncertain when to apply it, try using this

4) once again, i think you should learn how to use context. if you were able to perform this simple task that most us common folk take for granted, then you could see how your response makes no sense.

firstly, i did not say a person needs to breathe in order to be considered alive. the post i quoted stated that since a foetus had a heart, then it must also have lungs, and i was pointing out the flaw in this logic

secondly, 'let's not get into the ethical and moral side of this statement'? ummm....isn't that the whole point of this thread? to argue at what point a foetus becomes human? or maybe i'm living in a fantasy world and have misunderstood

 

[Sophie777]

omg, you really are an idiot. seriously, you are just digging yourself deeper.

1) you are trying to say that a foetus is the same thing as an abortion. how do you even know those pictures were from aborted foetuses? for all you know they were miscarriages

2) i love irony. especially how in order to 'prove' i have no valid points you had to ignore the majority of my posts and go back 10 pages

3) maybe you should look up this. if you are uncertain when to apply it, try using this

4) once again, i think you should learn how to use context. if you were able to perform this simple task that most us common folk take for granted, then you could see how your response makes no sense.

firstly, i did not say a person needs to breathe in order to be considered alive. the post i quoted stated that since a foetus had a heart, then it must also have lungs, and i was pointing out the flaw in this logic

secondly, 'let's not get into the ethical and moral side of this statement'? ummm....isn't that the whole point of this thread? to argue at what point a foetus becomes human? or maybe i'm living in a fantasy world and have misunderstood

I'm not sure a foetus does breathe, nor do I think its heart beats.

 

[LadyBec]

how can a foetus breathe? There's no air in the womb....

 

[Sophie777]

I think it has nothing to do with males and Tony Abbot and the male driven family first parties have no right to comment on a procedure to protect womens physical, mental and emotional health. It has NOTHING to do with these men NOTHING. I think it is absolutely disgusting that Abbott thinks he has some say in this, it wouldn't be him that would have to go through 9 months of hell and hours of labor to have somehting you didnt want or couldn't cope with having.

 

[girlanachronism]

notthatbright - you're right, it is sad, but it really pisses me off when people assume because i'm not crying everytime the topic comes up that i'm unfeeling or whatever.

urinnerchild - thank you, although to be honest it's been 14-15 months and i guess i have to say that i'm over it. you're right with the visual clarification - i was determined to make sure that i understood entirely what i'd done; i guess i kind of made it as difficult on myself as i could.

superbird -

Sure it has a heart beat, doesnt mean its alive right . You obviously think that a person is alive only when they are breathing. What happens if they go into a temporarty coma or drowned but can be revived. Would you pronounce them dead cause they cannot breathe?
You inadvertely implied that a baby is useless in a womb because it has no proper organs?? Lets not get into the ethical and moral side of this statement. You probably dont have any respect for human life.

hahaha you're a gronk. like seriously, i agree with pat, learn how to apply context to a certain situation.
oh, and i love how you didn't reply to my description of what an abortion is ACTUALLY like rather than the fabricated bs on abortiontv. thats alright, no one likes being proved wrong.


sophie-

nor do I think its heart beats.

wrong

 

[Sophie777]

Um... those who aren't breathing and heart is not beating is pronounced clinically dead.

People drown and can be revived BUT at the time prior to revival, they were dead.

Fetal heartbeats can be heart at 10 weeks with special instruments.

 

[Sophie777]

Girlanachronism... how is he wrong?