The legitimacy of depression as an illness. (6 Viewers)

[Cookie182]

She switched on her radio; a mindless storm of Teutonic passion possessed her and drove her to the cliff-edge of frenzy; then abruptly stopped. 'This rendition comes to you by courtesy of Kaiser's Stoneless Peaches. Remember, no other peach now marketed is perfect and completely stoneless. When you buy Kaiser's Stoneless Peach you are buying full weight of succulent peach flesh and nothing else...'

I actually will agree with you Iron on this one. I think religion/spirituality has great potential to help people out of depression.

 

[Iron]

 

[Iron]

 

[Cookie182]

Just a bit of my thoughts-

Whether you achieve it through spirituality/learning/experience, there is a tremendous power that comes through knowing who you are. Identity was mentioned earlier. When you know who you are, have clearly defined ethics/values and know your intrinsic self-worth (and that no other human can affect it) then life becomes enjoyable. Really fucking enjoyable! It's that fundamental change from being externally referential (basing your 'self' concept on others/societies constraints/conditioning) to having an internal locus of control. Quite frankly, it's enlightening and life just becomes one big, happy movie that YOU direct.

 

[shell.q]

i believe 100% that religion can effect the process into recovery positivley. i went from no religion to being christian last yr, my life has been better ever since.

 

[Silver Persian]

Yup believing in retarded dogma is certainly a way to numb the pain.

Then ditch once depression is gone

 

[Patar]

I suppose what most gets me about it is that there aren't in most cases any physical symptoms, so it makes it hard for me personally to believe in it as an actual illness rather than just the weakness of certain individuals (in most cases).

What are your personal views on this?

ahhh misguided

 

[katie tully]

Yeah the idea of basing your recovery on something that doesn't exist sounds heaps therapeutic.

 

[KFunk]

Look into NLP, 'clinically depressed' people have effectively been 'cured' within a few sessions with a certified NLP practioner. Of course, it is simply an evolving branch of thought, but the goal of NLP is to develop a model of "how" certain thoughts are created within our internal representational systems, not "why". Once you have identified the triggers, you can 're-frame' your reality and effectively eliminate the old feelings, replacing them with new thoughts and consequentially, giving you a new state of mind.

Pretty similar deal to Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), which is probably one of the most commonly practiced therapies in the context of depression.

 

[KFunk]

Quite frankly, 'depression' is not caused by a chemical imbalance- being in a depressed state releases certain chemicals, but this is not the cause. IMO it is just a mental state like happiness, and you can control state. I know people face tragic events in their lives, but giving the negative feelings an 'illness label' never helps IMO- it just breeds victim mentality in these people.

Quite frankly? Is this something that you know by intuition alone or are you actually basing your beliefs on data?

If you buy into spirits and mind-body dualism then fair enough, the 'mental states are not the result of chemicals' position makes sense. However, if you at all concede that mental states arise from brain states, and that brain states are likely the result of electrochemical neurotransmission in the brain then it seems to me to be a fairly simple step to suppose that differences in neurotransmission may generate differences in mental states (and a similar deal when it comes to environmental influences on cognition and behavior).

 

[Kwayera]

Look into NLP, 'clinically depressed' people have effectively been 'cured' within a few sessions with a certified NLP practioner. Of course, it is simply an evolving branch of thought, but the goal of NLP is to develop a model of "how" certain thoughts are created within our internal representational systems, not "why". Once you have identified the triggers, you can 're-frame' your reality and effectively eliminate the old feelings, replacing them with new thoughts and consequentially, giving you a new state of mind.

NLP is a nonsense psuedo-science. Do you suggest they take some homeopathic anti-depressants as well?

 

[chamelia]

You do realise that clinical depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, right? No amount of believing in 'God' is going to magically transform someone's ability to produce serotonin and dopamine in greater quantities.

 

[blue_chameleon]

Why some people continually attempt to spurt shit and pass it off as 'factual' is beyond me.

A general psychology course is all that is needed to understand neurotransmitters and their basic effects on the human brain.

There is far too much information out there for people to remain uninformed without intention. It's a pity that there are some outlandish statements being made about certain aspects of discussion that have been well proven.

 

[Ben Netanyahu]

You do realise that clinical depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, right? No amount of believing in 'God' is going to magically transform someone's ability to produce serotonin and dopamine in greater quantities.

so this is what it has come to? we've reduced the infinite qualities and vast space of the mind into chemical imbalances. Varied emotions from rage to love can be explained in terms of aromatic molecules that have polar interactions with receptors. the variety and mystique of the mind can all be rationalised by different combinations of carbon containing molecules.

i reject this school of thought. only the free thinkers amongst us, the philosophers and the like, can continue to have the strength to see past the realist interpretations of the mind. only we can continue to frame our discussion of the mind with the stale and ludicrous philosophical analyses that have served us well in years past. chemistry may offer one glib interpretation of the mind, but phenomenology and mind-body dualism offers a far less coarse and far more enlightening explanation of this utterly incomprehensible field.

so do your best, chemists, to understand this non-physical entity using the physical sciences as a base point. do your best.

 

[KFunk]

You do realise that clinical depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, right? No amount of believing in 'God' is going to magically transform someone's ability to produce serotonin and dopamine in greater quantities.

It's not quite that simple. The best theories suggest that it is an interaction between genetic predispositions and environmental triggers.

Religious beliefs may well help in some cases. Religion can give a person a sense of community and a transcendent cause outside of themselves. Also, it seems to be the case that religious/cultural beliefs which discourage suicide have a slight protective effect (against suicide, that is). Pathways and portions of the brain can change in both structure and function in response to experience (--> learning in general, conditioning, development, etc).

 

[blue_chameleon]

You do realise that clinical depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, right? No amount of believing in 'God' is going to magically transform someone's ability to produce serotonin and dopamine in greater quantities.

Missing the point, cham.

I think there is an element of truth however, to the belief that regardless of whether what they hold belief in exists or not, inclusion in an environment that people feel happier in, would be what is assisting their recovery.

EDIT: Ha, basically what is said ^.

 

[KFunk]

Varied emotions from rage to love can be explained in terms of aromatic molecules that have polar interactions with receptors.

Not quite. Pathways and molecules have been discovered which appear to underlie such things, but we are far from being able to explain how/why they give rise to phenomena like rage and love. Perhaps this will happen, though, if cognitive models come to be in tune with the molecular neuroscience.

Also, see Helen Fisher on the neuropsychology of love.

 

[Ben Netanyahu]

You miss my point comrade

CHEMISTRY CANNOT EXPLAIN THIS

We must revert to explanations that don't reduce the complexities of the mind. Chemistry is not the way to solve the problem of the mind: Chemistry IS the problem.

 

[KFunk]

You miss my point comrade

I caught your point, but I was correcting your strawman of the state of play - i.e. I wanted to make clear that neuroscience is not at the point where it can fully make claims to that extent.

CHEMISTRY CANNOT EXPLAIN THIS

We must revert to explanations that don't reduce the complexities of the mind. Chemistry is not the way to solve the problem of the mind: Chemistry IS the problem.

IMO, the most interesting phenomenon is consciousness. It is relatively straight forward to demonstrate how functional properties, such as might be performed by a computer (e.g. information processing, input/output, and so forth), may be instantiated by chemical structures. However, things quickly become difficult if you try to work out how consciousness can be explained in such terms. Some would maintain that there is an 'explanatory gap' which can never be bridge by empirical science. I am undecided myself, but it is certainly a fascinating theoretical issue.

 

[katie tully]

I caught your point, but I was correcting your strawman of the state of play - i.e. I wanted to make clear that neuroscience is not at the point where it can fully make claims to that extent.



IMO, the most interesting phenomenon is consciousness. It is relatively straight forward to demonstrate how functional properties, such as might be performed by a computer (e.g. information processing, input/output, and so forth), may be instantiated by chemical structures. However, things quickly become difficult if you try to work out how consciousness can be explained in such terms. Some would maintain that there is an 'explanatory gap' which can never be bridge by empirical science. I am undecided myself, but it is certainly a fascinating theoretical issue.

So things like, prove we exist? How do we know that everything around us isn't a figment of our imagination?