The legitimacy of depression as an illness. (3 Viewers)

[Ashabella]

I'm not going to write a massive reply to this thread, but I just want to say that depression is real, and legitimate.

I can understand why it would be hard to recognise it as a legitimate illness, because it really differs from most 'typical illnesses' in the sense that it is not seemingly physical, but is more emotional. Although, it is important to bare in mind that the cause of depression is a chemical imbalance, and in this respect, depression is very physical.

It's hard for people to imagine that symptoms such as 'low motivation levels' and 'poor concentration' can actually be the result of an illness, rather than merely the result of 'laziness'.

But in all honesty, I believe that it's impossible to understand this illness unless you have actually experienced it. It's impossible to understand what it's like to literally not be able to get out of bed because you feel so bad. It's impossible for people to understand how someone can really truly not write that essay, because the simply CAN'T concentrate. But when you're depressed, all of this is real.

I am currently experiencing depression. Nobody knows about my depression, but my family has recently found out (against my wishes). So I am not trying to 'get attention' for my depression - i'm too ashamed to want any attention at all. So that myth is busted.

Also, I am usually a very dedicated, motivated person. I never stop, i'm always working towards something and meeting goals. I've always been a good student, and have always worked hard. BUT, now I can't work hard. I can't concentrate, no matter how hard I try. I can spend all day (literally) sitting in front of my work, trying to get it done, and not even be able to write a sentence. I'm trying, I swear to god, i'm trying as hard as I can... but it just doesn't work. There are days when I can't get out of bed. When moving any part of my body feels impossible, because I just feel so weak and hopeless. BUt the point is, I am trying... I am trying to fight this, and I am NOT letting it beat me. My counsellor tells me that I need to rest and stop pushing myself but i'm refuse to, this is not me... You have to understand that i'm not being lazy. Being unable to do all these things is not an indication that I am being lazy, it's an indication that I actually CAN'T do it. I do try, but it doesn't work. So please don't believe that myth.

I promise, I do NOT want to be depressed. I fucking hate this. I would do anything and everything to make it go away. But this is REAL, it doesn't just go away when I want it to. In fact, it usually gets worse when I most want it to get fucked. Please don't doubt this condition, it's so hard to explain to someone that has not experienced it, but it exists, I promise. And it's fucking awful.

Okay, this was kind of long. I know people will probably abuse me now for what I have said, but I can deal with that. I empathise and totally understand why people can't understand depression, but sometimes it necessary for people to just accept that they don't understand it, and move on.

Sorry about the length... and I hope it all made sense. I'm a little tired...

 

[SurferNerd]

I'm not going to write a massive reply to this thread, but I just want to say that depression is real, and legitimate.

I can understand why it would be hard to recognise it as a legitimate illness, because it really differs from most 'typical illnesses' in the sense that it is not seemingly physical, but is more emotional. Although, it is important to bare in mind that the cause of depression is a chemical imbalance, and in this respect, depression is very physical.

It's hard for people to imagine that symptoms such as 'low motivation levels' and 'poor concentration' can actually be the result of an illness, rather than merely the result of 'laziness'.

But in all honesty, I believe that it's impossible to understand this illness unless you have actually experienced it. It's impossible to understand what it's like to literally not be able to get out of bed because you feel so bad. It's impossible for people to understand how someone can really truly not write that essay, because the simply CAN'T concentrate. But when you're depressed, all of this is real.

I am currently experiencing depression. Nobody knows about my depression, but my family has recently found out (against my wishes). So I am not trying to 'get attention' for my depression - i'm too ashamed to want any attention at all. So that myth is busted.

Also, I am usually a very dedicated, motivated person. I never stop, i'm always working towards something and meeting goals. I've always been a good student, and have always worked hard. BUT, now I can't work hard. I can't concentrate, no matter how hard I try. I can spend all day (literally) sitting in front of my work, trying to get it done, and not even be able to write a sentence. I'm trying, I swear to god, i'm trying as hard as I can... but it just doesn't work. There are days when I can't get out of bed. When moving any part of my body feels impossible, because I just feel so weak and hopeless. BUt the point is, I am trying... I am trying to fight this, and I am NOT letting it beat me. My counsellor tells me that I need to rest and stop pushing myself but i'm refuse to, this is not me... You have to understand that i'm not being lazy. Being unable to do all these things is not an indication that I am being lazy, it's an indication that I actually CAN'T do it. I do try, but it doesn't work. So please don't believe that myth.

I promise, I do NOT want to be depressed. I fucking hate this. I would do anything and everything to make it go away. But this is REAL, it doesn't just go away when I want it to. In fact, it usually gets worse when I most want it to get fucked. Please don't doubt this condition, it's so hard to explain to someone that has not experienced it, but it exists, I promise. And it's fucking awful.

Okay, this was kind of long. I know people will probably abuse me now for what I have said, but I can deal with that. I empathise and totally understand why people can't understand depression, but sometimes it necessary for people to just accept that they don't understand it, and move on.

Sorry about the length... and I hope it all made sense. I'm a little tired...

Without being offensive, most of that was emotional wish-wash and shows you have paid little attention to the dicussion at hand.

Firstly, as Kfunk rightfully pointed out, it is a very complicated issue in hot debate throughout the medical community. Purely labelling it as a chemical imbalance is incorrect. The contention seems to be, that it is a complex mix of biochemical and social factors which interplay and there is a danger in treating each own as the cause in isolation. Your argument that these people "can not purely concentrate" etc has no factual basis- how can you actually prove they are not using 'depression' as an excuse? Even if you are correct in that a select few actually do suffer from an 'illness' since it's an "emotional illness" as you point out, how can we seperate those who claim it , from those who actually have it? As has already been mentioned, we are heading into a "depression culture" where every second teenager believes they are "depressed" simply when one thing in their life goes wrong.

Also, how can you say it is "incomprehensable" if people haven't experienced it? If it is purely sceintific as you imply, then I believe we can have a great understanding of the "illness" under a conceptual framework. Your claim is fallacious- it is the equivalent to saying that no one can understand a concept without first hand experience. I imagine quite a few medical students understand cancer very well, I also doubt all of them have had cancer.

 

[Ashabella]

Without being offensive, most of that was emotional wish-wash and shows you have paid little attention to the dicussion at hand.

Firstly, as Kfunk rightfully pointed out, it is a very complicated issue in hot debate throughout the medical community. Purely labelling it as a chemical imbalance is incorrect. The contention seems to be, that it is a complex mix of biochemical and social factors which interplay and there is a danger in treating each own as the cause in isolation. Your argument that these people "can not purely concentrate" etc has no factual basis- how can you actually prove they are not using 'depression' as an excuse? Even if you are correct in that a select few actually do suffer from an 'illness' since it's an "emotional illness" as you point out, how can we seperate those who claim it , from those who actually have it? As has already been mentioned, we are heading into a "depression culture" where every second teenager believes they are "depressed" simply when one thing in their life goes wrong.

Also, how can you say it is "incomprehensable" if people haven't experienced it? If it is purely sceintific as you imply, then I believe we can have a great understanding of the "illness" under a conceptual framework. Your claim is fallacious- it is the equivalent to saying that no one can understand a concept without first hand experience. I imagine quite a few medical students understand cancer very well, I also doubt all of them have had cancer.

I am totally aware that it is often a mixture of both biological factors and environmental factors. Although, I suppose for some people it is solely biological, as there is evidence that people have fallen ill with depression without any particular 'reason'. There is certainly a danger of treating them in isolation too. If a doctor prescribed anti-depressants without referring their client to a therapist of some sort, they i'd be pretty damn concerned. That's clearly just a 'no go'.

Hey, I understand that you feel there is a depressed culture out there, particularly in the youth. It seems that a lot of people describe their mood as 'depressed' without really considering what that truly means. And then, of course, there's the whole emo thing, but i'm not going to go there...

You said "...how can we seperate those who claim it , from those who actually have it?"

Sure, I understand your frustrations. But just because there MAY be people 'faking it', does not mean that depression isn't legitimate or real. That doesn't mean that people don't experience this, it just means that you believe SOME people are not genuinely experiencing it.

You also mentioned that I don't have any proof that depression hinders your ability to concentrate. Well... that's actually a very common symptom of depression. When a doctor/psychiatrist is assessing whether someone is depressed or not they will most likely ask about their ability to concentrate and motivate themselves. I think the only proof I need is that it is a symptom of depression that is universally recognised in the medical profession. Also, if you want me to take it further, i'll use myself as an example. I am a really dedicated student at school, and always have been. I really value my education and really want to do well. BUT, since i've been depressed, I literally cannot concentrate. I try ALL weekend, every weekend to get things done, but I am not able to. Even though I like to be hard on myself and tell myself that i'm being lazy, I'm really not. I sit in front of my books all day, for hours and hours, and stress over the fact that I just can't focus...

You seem unable to understand this, and I understand why that would be the case, but that just really comes back to my argument that often it is impossible to understand depression unless you have actually experienced it.

I do not believe depression is 'purely scientific' at all. Sure, biological factors play a part but that does not mean the illness does not involve other aspects. You, know I disagree when you say that you'd imagine a lot of medical students would understand cancer very well, even though they haven't experienced it. They might understand purely in physical terms what happens to the patient, and while they can empathise, they can never really understand what it FEELS like (both emotionally and physically). And that's exactly what I am saying about depression. It's impossible to really truly understand what depression feels like if you haven't felt it yourself. If a person was to do extensive research on depression then, yes, I believe they would find if much easier to understand the illness, and understand that it's symptoms and affects ARE real and are legitimate.

And in regards to your statement about my post being 'emotional wish-wash'.. I do kind of see where you are coming from. haha

I do get a bit worked up about this stuff because when you have a diagnosed medical illness that is recognised by every health professional you have ever come across, it is a little disheartening when the rest of society denies its' legitimacy. You feel stupid, and like you are not worthwhile and that the depression is not the problem, it's YOU. I can tell you, that the things I am experiencing with depression are not consistent with my personality or 'who I am'... they are totally and utterly consistent with the SYMPTOMS of depression. Even my thought patterns, and the way I see things are consistent with depression.

For example.. you can have 'all or none' type thinking. And that is totally stereotypical of someone who is depressed.

Or you can have 'should/should not statements' like, for example: "I should not be depressed, because all these people think it is not real"

Then there are a range of other common thinking errors that are stereotypical of the illness (yes, I said illness people).

Don't sit there and imply that i'm some over dramatic teenager that is trying to get out of things by using my depression as an 'excuse'. It's not like that. Why on earth would anyone want to watch themselves waste their lives being unhappy?

Depression is not anyone's fault, it's just an illness. Find me a legitimate health professional that proclaims that depression is not real and then i'll believe you. But frankly, all I can see is a bunch of common misconceptions being bred and developed in this thread. Nothing more.

 

[Ashabella]

Anyone claiming individuals are 'faking it' or are misdiagnosed is offered to provide evidence to support their outlandish claims.

Anyone claiming we live in an overmedicated culture is offered to provide evidence.

Anyone claiming we live in a fantasy world where pills are offered to cure everything is offered to provide evidence.

What the fuck is wrong with this thread.

Where insanity, CAM and tall-poppy syndrome meets a healthy solid dash of contempt for the suffering of others.

I like you. You're cool.

 

[Iron]

You've never been skeptical about someone who, in your personal experience, has somehow advertised their alleged depression?

 

[Ashabella]

You've never been skeptical about someone who, in your personal experience, has somehow advertised their alleged depression?

Oh Jesus.

Why would anyone want to advertise their depression when the majority of people don't even think depression exists?!?!?!


You get abused if you tell people your depressed. People judge you, people look at you weird and people think you are some attention seeking, over-dramatic lazy piece of shit. It's not like everyone comes running to you with flowers and chocolates. Telling people about your depression isn't fun, it's fucking hectic, because you get treated like complete shit.

gahhhhh!


I think you people are in need of a reality check!


These kind of attitudes and a general non-acceptance are deterring people from accessing the support they need. Imagine how many depressed people are going to read this and feel like shit?

It's awful. It's taken a lot of guts for me to even stick up for myself. These views and attitudes are just so harmful. You have no idea.

 

[stolenhotelpen]

But in all honesty, I believe that it's impossible to understand this illness unless you have actually experienced it. It's impossible to understand what it's like to literally not be able to get out of bed because you feel so bad. It's impossible for people to understand how someone can really truly not write that essay, because the simply CAN'T concentrate. But when you're depressed, all of this is real.

I am currently experiencing depression. Nobody knows about my depression, but my family has recently found out (against my wishes). So I am not trying to 'get attention' for my depression - i'm too ashamed to want any attention at all. So that myth is busted.

Also, I am usually a very dedicated, motivated person. I never stop, i'm always working towards something and meeting goals. I've always been a good student, and have always worked hard. BUT, now I can't work hard. I can't concentrate, no matter how hard I try. I can spend all day (literally) sitting in front of my work, trying to get it done, and not even be able to write a sentence. I'm trying, I swear to god, i'm trying as hard as I can... but it just doesn't work. There are days when I can't get out of bed. When moving any part of my body feels impossible, because I just feel so weak and hopeless. BUt the point is, I am trying... I am trying to fight this, and I am NOT letting it beat me. My counsellor tells me that I need to rest and stop pushing myself but i'm refuse to, this is not me... You have to understand that i'm not being lazy. Being unable to do all these things is not an indication that I am being lazy, it's an indication that I actually CAN'T do it. I do try, but it doesn't work. So please don't believe that myth.

i think you're really brave and i admire your confidence in saying this so strongly, and so rightly.

that really hit home for me. i keep falling back into the 'i can do it alone' pattern, and i don't think that i can personally do it alone. i don't think that i am as strong as you, but i think the motivated commonality between us helps us in a similar way at times.

thankyou for standing up on here.

 

[stolenhotelpen]

Anyone claiming individuals are 'faking it' or are misdiagnosed is offered to provide evidence to support their outlandish claims.

Anyone claiming we live in an overmedicated culture is offered to provide evidence.

Anyone claiming we live in a fantasy world where pills are offered to cure everything is offered to provide evidence.

What the fuck is wrong with this thread.

Where insanity, CAM and tall-poppy syndrome meets a healthy solid dash of contempt for the suffering of others.

You're awesome.

 

[Ashabella]

Hey,

Thanks. That actually means a lot that you said that because I feel like I am just being judged on this thread. So it's nice to know someone has seen it in a more positive light.

Yeah, it's easy to slip into that 'I can do it alone' attitude. I'm a serial offender, personally haha. But it's true, it doesn't help, and eventually you run out of steam... and crash.

Feel free to message me if you ever want any support, okay?

And if you want to team up with me and challenge all these misconceptions, i'll have your back

hehe


Take care, and thanks again.

xo

 

[sunsettah]

Oh Jesus.

Why would anyone want to advertise their depression when the majority of people don't even think depression exists?!?!?!


You get abused if you tell people your depressed. People judge you, people look at you weird and people think you are some attention seeking, over-dramatic lazy piece of shit. It's not like everyone comes running to you with flowers and chocolates. Telling people about your depression isn't fun, it's fucking hectic, because you get treated like complete shit.

gahhhhh!


I think you people are in need of a reality check!


These kind of attitudes and a general non-acceptance are deterring people from accessing the support they need. Imagine how many depressed people are going to read this and feel like shit?

It's awful. It's taken a lot of guts for me to even stick up for myself. These views and attitudes are just so harmful. You have no idea.

I'm generally on your side of the argument up until about.. here..

There are a LOT of people that fake or over-act their conditions.

Of course, it's stupid. But I know a LOT of people that actually DO use a depression diagnosis as an excuse beyond what's .. well realistic..

You've obviously not met anyone like this, or you are extremelly gullible and believe them.

It's similar to people that act really drunk when they're not, of course it's stupid and you're only humiliating yourself.... but they still do it.. =\

 

[sunsettah]

Having the luxury to choose who I spend time with, I choose not to associate with people with BPD.

Could you please expand on this?
BPD in medical terms stands for Borderline Personality Disorder, which is on the borderline of bipolar and psychosis.

But possibly, you mean Bipolar disorder maybe?

Just that BPD seemed less likely, as it's not talked about much in popular media, etc so most people haven't heard of it.. But if that's what you really do mean, congrats lol.

But please expand on that comment, I'm intrigued.

 

[Iron]

I suspect that the genuine sufferers hide the symptoms fairly well until blam... It's easy to confuse a public display of the 'aped' symptoms with normal attention-seeking stuff

 

[stolenhotelpen]

I'm generally on your side of the argument up until about.. here..

There are a LOT of people that fake or over-act their conditions.

Of course, it's stupid. But I know a LOT of people that actually DO use a depression diagnosis as an excuse beyond what's .. well realistic..

You've obviously not met anyone like this, or you are extremelly gullible and believe them.

It's similar to people that act really drunk when they're not, or course it's stupid and you're only humiliating yourself.... but they still do it.. =\

I think you've got to remember that although there may be a huge chunk of "depression sufferers" that are not diagnosed. Some of which are actually suffering from the mental illness, and others who are having a tough time in life yet are do not have the illness, and an even smaller minority who know that they do not have depression but use the term quite lightly for when they are feeling a little down or perhaps desire attention or for some other (in my opinion) quite shallow reason.

It's not fair in any way to include ALL people who say they have depression in this group. Just like how you say that some people act really drunk when they're not; maybe some of these people that you are making assumptions about are actually that drunk and do actually act like that when they are. That's a terrible analogy, but I think you will understand what I'm trying to say. Don't group all in one group - there's genuine cases in there too.

 

[Ashabella]

I'm generally on your side of the argument up until about.. here..

There are a LOT of people that fake or over-act their conditions.

Of course, it's stupid. But I know a LOT of people that actually DO use a depression diagnosis as an excuse beyond what's .. well realistic..

You've obviously not met anyone like this, or you are extremelly gullible and believe them.

It's similar to people that act really drunk when they're not, or course it's stupid and you're only humiliating yourself.... but they still do it.. =\

Hmmm okay... yeah, I don't think I have come across anyone like that.

But I can see your point.

I guess, even if those types of people do exist, that doesn't mean that EVERYONE with depression is faking it. That generalisation seems to be quite prominent on this thread. No one is focusing on the people who go through this stuff and never tell anyone... what the hell is their motivation for faking it? (Not that there is anything wrong with getting support though.. it's encouraged!)

Do you know what I mean though? People just seem to be stereotyping depressed people into this narrow and quite unrealistic pigeon hole.

 

[stolenhotelpen]

Yeah I agree. Whilst focusing on all of the people who many believe are "faking it" or "putting it on", I think the people who are actually suffering the illness have been forgotten on this thread.

 

[stolenhotelpen]

The point though is that this doesn't undermine the legitimacy of the condition.

THANKYOU
*applause from the crowd of 2*

 

[Ashabella]

THANKYOU
*applause from the crowd of 2*

I second that. haha

 

[Iron]

The point though is that this doesn't undermine the legitimacy of the condition.

Ow we can be more constructive when reading the title. I suspect that we all know at least someone who appears to feign depression - perhaps even becomes depressed as a result!? - to an extent which casts a healthy skepticism over the illness imo

 

[stolenhotelpen]

Ow we can be more constructive when reading the title. I suspect that we all know at least someone who appears to feign depression - perhaps even becomes depressed as a result!? - to an extent which casts a healthy skepticism over the illness imo

Let's get it clear that the person who created this thread put forward a question, or a point for debate and did not originally put forward their opinion on the topic. I doubt that they are personally affected by the illness, though I cannot confirm this. The title of this thread is not the doing of an individual who is extremely frustrated with this argument because they cannot see the concrete behind a perspective that depression is not an illness (me), yet by another individual who questions the legitimacy of the illness. The title should not impact whether or not your put forward constructive points of view. That is an excuse, not a reason.

 

[Iron]

What?

Do hypochondriacs undermine medicine as a science? Otherwise this logic is specious at best and damaging at worst.

lol fair point
and YES

How many people wait until they're diagnosed with clinical depression until they claim that they are so? Viewed from an ordinary person on the street, the symptoms are inherently difficult to quantify as a bona fide illness and not a fleeting mental state.
I'm just putting forward the common sense view that we dont always take people at their word/opinion on such things

there's both an everyday meaning and a medical meaning attached to the term. There is often a distinction