the limitations of ants (2 Viewers)

[d1ngo]

Originally posted by narrator
the narrator is not a construct of the playwright, but rather a neccessary facet of the playwright's existence, for without a narrator, there is no play and without a play, there is no playwright...

WTF? There is NO basis of truth whatsoever in that statement... COUNTLESS plays have no need whatsoever for a narrator... Even those from your "so precious" post-modernism genre...

ABSURDISM!!!!!

Samuel Beckett's "Waiting for Godot" ----> NO NARRATOR
Harold Pinter's "The Dumb Waiter" ______> No NARRATOR
Eugene Ionseco's "Zoo Story" _____> NO NARRATOR

The fact remains that in these plays the narrator has been denied existence for he/she/it is completely and utterly unnecessary. The actors do the work of the narrator and tell the story. He/She/It is not needed. A play, such as one i participated in not too long ago, only needs a narrator to fill in the blanks of the audience... generally (not necessarily in your case) this is because the audience are drones and need things to be explained, but ALSO BECAUSE THE MEANING AND MESSAGE OF THE PLAY IS NOT ADEQUATELY PORTRAYED IN THE PLAY.

There is even a genre of dram called NARRATIVE, negating the use of the narrator, for he is unecessary. You have based you're entire argument on the fact that u believe that narrators are needed for plays...

I'm sorry to tell youl, but they're not.

 

[narrator]

Originally posted by d1ngo

Samuel Beckett's "Waiting for Godot" ----> NO NARRATOR
Harold Pinter's "The Dumb Waiter" ______> No NARRATOR
Eugene Ionseco's "Zoo Story" _____> NO NARRATOR

The fact remains that in these plays the narrator has been denied existence for he/she/it is completely and utterly unnecessary.

There is even a genre of dram called NARRATIVE, negating the use of the narrator, for he is unecessary. You have based you're entire argument on the fact that u believe that narrators are needed for plays...

...once again d1ngo, you have failed to address the original point of discussion. Not only that, but you fail to recognise that narrators exist not only in plays, but in all text formats, but im willing to overlook this narrowmindedness to deal with the other, more significant issues you raise...

...you have taken the term 'narrator' purely as a physical being, but a narrator is so much more...

...the plays you have mentioned, do they not have settings?...
...or props?...
...do the characters not live in a false reality?...
...a world created by a master, a superior being?...


...for this is the essence of a narrator, to be a binding force, a driving force, a force which both instigates and perpetuates the characters' lives to the point that their reality becomes just that, a reality...

...without a good narrator, their reality will always be unreal...

...thus the narrator is needed for a reality, for a construct...


...your point that the genre narrative needs no narrator is based on assumptions...

...an ant may be insignificant compared to the colony, but that does not mean that the ant does not exist...

...in much the same way, a god unknown is a god not praised, the ultimate in power, to be an undying force but never to be challenged...

...a narrator does not simply watch on, as you yourself know from a play you've recently been in, but concurrently is both the creater of the universe and a being interacting within it...

...a narrator does not simply fill in the gaps, for a message can only be made clear if there is a force to make it known that a message exists...

 

[d1ngo]

i just dun think i cud be fucked doing this anymore...

even when i'm right it would appear that some "god" thinks that he's right...



God doesn't exist... except in the hearts of men who have created him to explain what they cannot... gods are a false being and have no need for existence...

 

[narrator]

...admitting deafet, im dissapointed d1ngo, i was having so much fun...

Originally posted by d1ngo
God doesn't exist... except in the hearts of men who have created him to explain what they cannot... gods are a false being and have no need for existence...

...by the way, this quote is contradictory...

...gods cannot be false beings if they are real and true to people who beleive in them...

...you have tried to convince me of the power of false, personal realitites, yet have denied what is often seen as a major driving force in these realities...

...rather a anticlimactic final stand d1ngo...

 

[AsyLum]

if your the narrator who's controlling the story!!

 

[d1ngo]

It's only defeat in your eyes, for everymans reality is defined by their own experiences and perceptions... even the ants

 

[narrator]

...ahh, experience, the only driving force of the ants...

...reality isnt defined by such, reality cannot be defined by perspective, for reality is perspective, this is all that reality can ever be, merely an illusion to the real...

...yet defeat, that is another concept, i see you have now ressurected yourself form the land of false realities, of false hopes and dreams...

...for i have come to understand that ants cannot admit defeat because they never fight the battle...

 

[AsyLum]

Originally posted by narrator
...ahh, experience, the only driving force of the ants...

...reality isnt defined by such, reality cannot be defined by perspective, for reality is perspective, this is all that reality can ever be, merely an illusion to the real...

...yet defeat, that is another concept, i see you have now ressurected yourself form the land of false realities, of false hopes and dreams...

...for i have come to understand that ants cannot admit defeat because they never fight the battle...

...lets end this with one question...

...if existence is the key to defining this argument, then what of those who dont exist yet have the power of creation, the narrator, and to what extent does this narrator define their own existence if their existence is merely a facade upon which their reality is ascertained as being the truth ?

 

[d1ngo]

Originally posted by narrator
[B...reality isnt defined by such, reality cannot be defined by perspective, for reality is perspective, this is all that reality can ever be, merely an illusion to the real...[/B]

So... if r4eality is perception, that would mean that reality is an illusion to perception...

that doesn't make sense... but maybe it's because i'm not an ant anymore and am beginning to understand the ways of the "real"

 

[narrator]

i never claimed you to be an ant, d1ngo, but you simply displayed the qualities of one...

...at any rate, your ststus has not changed, whether you know the 'real' or not, you are still powerless to alter it...

...by the way AsyLum, i don't know how you can say that a narrator does not exist...

...the life, or at least the being, of a narrator is not one of questioning, of existence or non-existence, of purpose or meaning of oneself, but to provide purpose and meaning, or lack, of, to their ants, as i have done with d1ngo...

...only because of my direction has he been able to see things he never noticed before, he admits it himself...

...at any rate, reality and existence is are not necessarily the key ponts here, that is for schizophrenic rocks and deceased gods to decide...

...it is important to distinguish power from existence...

...by the way d1ngo, just because reality is a perception, this does not make it an illusion to perception...

...if anything, reality is an allusion to a lack of reality...


...perhaps there is more to be said after all?...

 

[AsyLum]

Originally posted by narrator
i never claimed you to be an ant, d1ngo, but you simply displayed the qualities of one...

...at any rate, your ststus has not changed, whether you know the 'real' or not, you are still powerless to alter it...

...by the way AsyLum, i don't know how you can say that a narrator does not exist...

...the life, or at least the being, of a narrator is not one of questioning, of existence or non-existence, of purpose or meaning of oneself, but to provide purpose and meaning, or lack, of, to their ants, as i have done with d1ngo...

...only because of my direction has he been able to see things he never noticed before, he admits it himself...

...at any rate, reality and existence is are not necessarily the key ponts here, that is for schizophrenic rocks and deceased gods to decide...

...it is important to distinguish power from existence...

...by the way d1ngo, just because reality is a perception, this does not make it an illusion to perception...

...if anything, reality is an allusion to a lack of reality...


...perhaps there is more to be said after all?...

you presume that the narrator exists as an inevitability, if the ant do not exist, then what role does the narrator possess if their very purpose and meaning does not form

 

[narrator]

now we are getting somewhere...

...the process of exxistence and non-existence is not cyclical, for within our sphere of understanding, a narrator and their ants always exist...

...as you have shown, the ability to question existence would suggest it is there, if we were not able to question, we wouldnt exist and the question of existence would cease to also...

...i presume you rather mean in certain situations how is it possible to determine existence, or a sense of reality, if you will...

...this stems from the concept of power which was discussed earlier, for as you mention, a narrator cannot exist without ants, it is impossible to gain power over something if the something doesn't exist...

...however, a narrator by essense is a being of power, due to the existence of the ants there is the existence of the narrator, if the ants don't exist then there is no power base for the narrator, the narrator is a consequence of existence...

...to question whether existence exists is going a bit far however, for but even so, without existence there is nothingness and even in that nothingness, the narrator remains...

...for this nothingness would then be a type of power, the power to not create, and thus the traits of a narrator, in controlling ants or controlling a lack of, are still evident...

...a narrator is free of time and space...

...is free of the real and the unreal...

...is free of existence and non-existence...

...narrators, as i said, are binding forces, but they dont necessarily bind what is there, but sometimes what isnt, they are still in control, thus they are not dependant on the ants...

 

[d1ngo]

all that relies on a "sphere of understanding," which can only be a construct of the mind... therefore, all this 'stuff' can only exist in a mind, but not in the real...

 

[meanz]

Hi Bradley
i want you to give it to me because if u dont give it to me no one else will!
we r wasting good fraction time

 

[AsyLum]

...ONE GOOD POINT TO COME OUT OF THIS DISCUSSION...


.......





















IS WHO REALLY CARES ????

 

[narrator]

...narrators care about their ants, their characters, their pawns...

...d1ngo, what you say is illogical, a sphere of understanding is not one of the mind but rather one of the real, one cannot create a sphere of understanding without the sphere, being reality, in at least some form...