The Professional Elite (4 Viewers)

[Generator]

Ok, the following debate may prove to be more than a little contentious (even with mathmite banned), so I'll just post the link and then let the discussion flow till Moonlight, McLake, a supermod or an admin deems it inappropriate, but I would prefer that the debate at least be given some room for CONSTRUCTIVE discussion rather than be dismissed out of hand and deleted at the earliest opportunity.

The changing face of our professional elite

The changing face of our professional elite
By Michael Duffy
November 12, 2005

THE big change no one talks about is the growing success of people from Asian backgrounds in the professions. If present rates continue, they could form a majority of Australian professionals within a generation or two. Such an outcome would be unusual: perhaps the first time in history a nation's elite has invited another group to come in and replace it.

[continued - see link]

Edit: Most people love a laugh and we all have a soft spot for the odd joker or two, but in threads such as this attempts at being humourous are best to be avoided given that so many people appear to be oblivious to the odd comment made in jest, no matter how blatantly obvious the jest truly is.

 

[Lexicographer]

This article to me seems almost a call to arms against Asian students and professionals. Just look at this sentence:

The Government has hardly increased the number of domestic university places since 1996, so these graduates are literally taking jobs that would once have gone to Australian citizens.

Them's fighting words there.

 

[transcendent]

Yet you do not see those of Asian background making such a fuss over it. Asian professionals are becoming a silent minority. You need only to catch the train to see the large number of Asian people who travel to the city to work. Yet there aren't many Asian politicians. I believe we, Asians, contribute alot to the economy. We work and it seems we don't do much else.

 

[Comrade nathan]

Man im fucking drunk.

 

[transcendent]

Can't you tell by that article that 'Australians' aren't getting in and he's a little... emotional about that? And by 'Australian' he means white?

 

[transcendent]

I believe he may be emotional due to Asians taking the 'power' occupations, even though they are usually the office jobs were they are unseen instead of labouring jobs for the less skilled and educated. It is possible that he may be threatened by the fact that Asians are taking the smarter jobs and leaving 'Australians' with the other jobs. Personally, as an Asian, as much as I hate to admit to it, I don't much care. I work for the money. I believe Asians also work for the money also but are more determined to make lots of it hence studying for high paying professional jobs. It's a belief pushed by their parents if not themselves.

 

[transcendent]

No. He's saying that those 'Australians' that are rich and smart and generally bitch the loudest to the media can usually afford to send their kids to university which is why there is a lack of bitching about such a large amount of Asians in university and their kids not being able to get in.

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

Can't you tell by that article that 'Australians' aren't getting in and he's a little... emotional about that? And by 'Australian' he means white?

wait...
so if i was an Australian born and a citizen and really lived my whole life her.. but my surname is still wang, sikh or nyugen i would be asian :O well there goes my excuse for being an Australian..

traditionally Asians Immigrants do not take up political office in another nation... e.g. chinese in indonesia and indians in fiji.. but they make the most money as they work the economy
but then a group will backlash against the Asians (happened in other nations too :S).. and if that happens in Aust.. i guess id ship out.. i mean not like they need doctors in aust ...

Well its not my fault i got in.. and i wanted it..

 

[callisto]

lengy is my favorite asian :uhhuh:

 

[erawamai]

'Asian' and therefore not 'Australian'. It's not so great when people align nationality with race.

but they make the most money as they work the economy

True.

 

[RyddeckerSMP]

As what FIFA says, we are Asian anyway. Therefore, Asian and Australian mean the same thing.

Labels are rubbish anyway.

 

[Generator]

As expected, some are baying for blood from the word go.

As for the 'debate' regarding domestic places, it should have been quite clear that the author was discussing the continued rise in places offered to international students and the way in which domestic places have apparently plateaued. Yes, it was a bit of a stretch to go from that on to the notion of a new professional elite, but as he said, perhaps its time to let the debate begin, and for that nothing can be more fitting than an opinion piece that sets the heart on fire.

Also, as shown by some of the posts above, this debate also opens up questions regarding what it means to be Australian. As one of the few countries that officially recognises a policy of tokenistic multi-culturalism and (relative) freedom of cultural expression, the Australian nationality (something that is collectively, not offically, constructed) isn't as clear cut as many here may believe. Is it political, or is it cultural? If it's cultural, then is it anglo-celtic in nature, or is it more inclusive?

 

[Xayma]

wait...
so if i was an Australian born and a citizen and really lived my whole life her.. but my surname is still wang, sikh or nyugen i would be asian :O well there goes my excuse for being an Australian..

traditionally Asians Immigrants do not take up political office in another nation... e.g. chinese in indonesia and indians in fiji.. but they make the most money as they work the economy
but then a group will backlash against the Asians (happened in other nations too :S).. and if that happens in Aust.. i guess id ship out.. i mean not like they need doctors in aust ...

Well its not my fault i got in.. and i wanted it..

Ignoring the main racial issue here for a second he does make a valid point that the government continues to allow graduate's to get visas while the field is saturated (the racial background of the persons involved shouldn't be considered).

 

[Generator]

I think that one of the key points of the article is that debates of this nature should be tackled head on rather than swept under the carpet, because there's no way that the country can advance in a socio-cultural sense if popular discontent (see One Nation in 1998 and the Coalition to a lesser extent in the 2001 Federal election for instances of this discontent) is left to simmer rather than be discussed and then effectively addressed in a progressive manner.

 

[Henry_Kissinger]

I'm sorry if this is going to sound racist, but the majority of these "professional elite" asians are actually not quite as talented as they are made out to be.

They are wage slaves mostly and not the "powerful".

They are hardly in the class of the Australian Jews now are they?

 

[MoonlightSonata]

I have no qualms with the discussion, Generator

 

[transcendent]

I get the feeling that 'Asian' professionals do not compare to Jews as they are less likely to actively seek promotion once they begin their careers. They will probably work hard and hope that their employers will see that and so promote them whereas Jews have a louder voice and would negotiate deals for promotion over other employees. It's more the case of 'Asians' preferring to follow the rules to get somewhere while the Jews lead and challenge the rules. This is what I think separates them, that one leads while the other follows, hence the silent majority.

The thing about this debate is that it encompasses so many issues: university placement, multiculturalism, immigration, economy and education. If we keep this thread clean it should be a large debating thread.

 

[loquasagacious]

The absence of AM and Tommy is probably helping on that count.....

I think (from what I skimmed) that its an interesting point however falls victim to a very common problem - that is the assumption that trends will continue. I think it's highly unlikely that the alleged trend toward 'asianisation' of the white collar class will continue indefinantly.

On a related note, I havn't read the article fully enough but did the author address the rather simple problem that whilst international students may have increased that I dare say the majority of them return to their country of origin rather than emigrate here.

 

[Iron]

I think that globalisation will lead to further racism, beyond unemployed rednecks, boat people and terrorism. By impoverishing the third world while at the same time exposing them to western culture/excess, hostility in those parts is inevitable.
Also when/if China begins to seriously threaten U.S hegemony (desporate to annex the world's female population, no doubt), I suspect that we'll choose the US camp and develop a more overt affection for them - akin to the Brits. That we'll be apart of the free, democratic, liberalised world (read: white) and that our security will be linked to support for America. The more accute that threat becomes, the more race will be linked with nationality.
The rotting of education via the internet will also facilitate radical views on our part.
So to summarise, multiculturalism's failure, corruption of liberalism, economic downturn, third world hostility/further attacks on Aust/US/UK and China's rise will lead to equal opportunity laws being altered to favour the anglo-celtic.

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

Ignoring the main racial issue here for a second he does make a valid point that the government continues to allow graduate's to get visas while the field is saturated (the racial background of the persons involved shouldn't be considered).

dun we currently have the lowest sustainable unemployment rate for our nation since the 1960s?

I would agree that letting more skilled migrants in who would 'take' positions that existed would make me pissed off too..

but in reality his article why does he have to shift between comparing 5267 visas granted to 30% of domestic graduates?
Is he still referring to IT graduates?
And “foreign IT graduates” usually means that they graduated from an overseas institute
ambiguity in his article... it raises a good point but its hardly good clear evidence...
Also Australia has rules about who can come in.... and usually its positions where there is shortages such as nursing or pharmacist or hairdressers.

i think to top it off..."And those of us in these circles who are parents are (relatively) smart and wealthy enough to help our kids get into university, with a bit of luck."..
even if u were anglo-celtic unless ure parents were smart and rich... u prolly got in with luck.. well if u can't beat them in the academia.. lets stop migration .

to be honest you'd wonder what your role as immigrants is.... if i work too hard its a bad thing.. If they wanted the 7% to reflect the population.. they shouldnt have let their parents come in with their hard work values and skills/intelligents.. if u pick the skilled/intellectuals (intelligence is environment + genetics) from another country.. they will do well.. and their children too..

if u picked criminals ud get a similar problem