The Professional Elite (2 Viewers)

[transcendent]

Hence why there aren't as many 'Australians' in university. Cause they are all in goal being former convicts.

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

Hence why there aren't as many 'Australians' in university. Cause they are all in goal being former convicts.

thats goal as in.. he scored a goal..
ure thinking of gaol.. lik prison..

 

[Xayma]

Hence why there aren't as many 'Australians' in university. Cause they are all in goal being former convicts.

It's ok, go back a few* more generations and we are all single cellular organisms. Which does explain alot of people.

*Few refers to many many many many

 

[fleepbasding]

"They are far more successful in education than other Australians. For instance, in the 2004 HSC, about 350 of the top 1000 students had Asian surnames. As people of Asian background comprise about 7 per cent of the population, this means they did five times better as a group than other Australians. This success has been going on for more than a decade: in 1993, for example, the figure was 330."

I don't quite understand how he can link "asian" students performing well in the HSC, to the growing number of full-fee international (asian) places in university. The latter isn't so good, the former is an example of determination and hard work- surely great Australian virtues?

 

[gO_Go_b00m]

Disclaimer: May cause a riot.

No, "Australian's" were convicts to begin with; so iuno how they ended up with professional jobs or "virtues" at all.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

If he is talking about asians as in recent asian immigrants who took up uni here etc, then I totally disagree with his argument. Full fee paying students (including those from overseas) are profit makers for the government, and can definately be used (if the government so wishes) to invest more into the education of our own population.

 

[Capitalist Pig]

Hence why there aren't as many 'Australians' in university. Cause they are all in goal being former convicts.

Ignoring the fact that quite a few of the caucasians (I'd even venture to say that majority) came here post-convict colony or as free settlers.

I have no problem with this, if the Asians are willing to work harder and have greater ability than their caucasian counterparts then they are clearly more deserving of the positions.

 

[basketcase89]

I don't understand this guy's problem. He's whinging that most of the top HSC students were from Asian background, then comparing them to international full fee-paying students. What the?? Just seems like anti-Asian propaganda disguised as an important national issue to me.

 

[loquasagacious]

I think that globalisation will lead to further racism, beyond unemployed rednecks, boat people and terrorism. By impoverishing the third world while at the same time exposing them to western culture/excess, hostility in those parts is inevitable.
Also when/if China begins to seriously threaten U.S hegemony (desporate to annex the world's female population, no doubt), I suspect that we'll choose the US camp and develop a more overt affection for them - akin to the Brits. That we'll be apart of the free, democratic, liberalised world (read: white) and that our security will be linked to support for America. The more accute that threat becomes, the more race will be linked with nationality.
The rotting of education via the internet will also facilitate radical views on our part.
So to summarise, multiculturalism's failure, corruption of liberalism, economic downturn, third world hostility/further attacks on Aust/US/UK and China's rise will lead to equal opportunity laws being altered to favour the anglo-celtic.

Hmm somebody did the globalisation question for IR.

Personally I think that Australia will opt for non-aligning. I think that our hard and soft power alignments are diverging and that as time continues we will be increasingly 'soft' integrated into asia despite 'hard' integration with the US. In the interests of playing both ends to the middle we will steer a neutral course.

 

[leetom]

Also, as shown by some of the posts above, this debate also opens up questions regarding what it means to be Australian. As one of the few countries that officially recognises a policy of tokenistic multi-culturalism and (relative) freedom of cultural expression, the Australian nationality (something that is collectively, not offically, constructed) isn't as clear cut as many here may believe. Is it political, or is it cultural? If it's cultural, then is it anglo-celtic in nature, or is it more inclusive?

I find it annoying when Australians of any given ethnic background, proclaim themselves to actually be a national of the region from which that given ethinicity originates, wherever it is in the world. It stems from stupidity, they think that because they are not white they are somehow not Australian and it is this mentality which has plagued this threads discourse so far.

Note to ethnic Asians: you are exactly that. Ethnic Asians. Your nationality is Australian.

Edit: Unfortunately, there are also white Australians who assume another Australians nationality is that of their ethnicity. From my experience, the masses seem to enjoy ethnic segregation as a form of identification and it is embraced by Australians of all races. I just find it pathetic that the only channel for individual expression for so many is flaunting ones race.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I find it annoying when Australians of any given ethnic background, proclaim themselves to actually be a national of the region from which that given ethinicity originates, wherever it is in the world. It stems from stupidity, they think that because they are not white they are somehow not Australian and it is this mentality which has plagued this threads discourse so far.

Note to ethnic Asians: you are exactly that. Ethnic Asians. Your nationality is Australian.

Edit: Unfortunately, there are also white Australians who assume another Australians nationality is that of their ethnicity. From my experience, the masses seem to enjoy ethnic segregation as a form of identification and it is embraced by Australians of all races. I just find it pathetic that the only channel for individual expression for so many is flaunting ones race.

I am completely with you there leetom.
It's not just white australians that do this... alot of people's first question when they meet someone these days is "what nasho are you?".

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

I am completely with you there leetom.
It's not just white australians that do this... alot of people's first question when they meet someone these days is "what nasho are you?".

me thinks you've been hanging around this forum too much .. lolz

i think there is a good way and a bad way of identifying through ethnicity.. personally i like the differences.. cos u can joke about it but to hold yourself superior to another ethnicity is poor..

i must admit.. my own experiences are that.. its a mentality.. that asians will be bias to think that other asians hold the same values and are easier to 'deal' with
but its not a hard and fast rule also u have to consider that some values no matter how time honoured are stupid..

to Not-That-Bright and leetom the question is.. is the article justified?
.. i guess being ethnic asian I find it hard not to feel alienated when the mass media in a place i call home publishes this.. i mean im in that top 1000 .. im in the medical course... i identify my roots as being asian.. im actually 1st generation immigrant.. what he seems to think is a crisis..

 

[Sarah]

I am completely with you there leetom.
It's not just white australians that do this... alot of people's first question when they meet someone these days is "what nasho are you?".

Oh the good old "what nasho..?" question!

Well Leetom, i've been asked that question myself and there are times when i've said I'm Australian however ppl will go "oh what i meant was...". It just becomes easier to say i was born here but have a different ethnic background

 

[leetom]

I am completely with you there leetom.
It's not just white australians that do this... alot of people's first question when they meet someone these days is "what nasho are you?".

I know! It's so frustrating. You get it alot out here in the west. I love correcting people trapped in that mindset with "you mean my ethnic background?", and they look back, dumbfounded, and reply with "yeah, like, where ya parents from and shit" and from that point on, you are viewed through the spectrum of whatever your particular ethnic background is, at least from people operating in this mindset.

This mindset, it's everywhere as well. The hoi polloi know nothing else than to immediately discard any sense of unity through Australian nationality and but to class on race. I showed my sister a picture of a girl I'm involved with and her first reaction, to my disgust, is- "But she's a lebbo!!".

Edit: pointdexter, unfortunately Duffy was a bit vague in just which sort of asian he levelled his despair at. He shouldn't have noted the academic success of Asian-Australian HSC students so closely to a paragraph on increasing numbers of international Asian uni students.

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

This mindset, it's everywhere as well. The hoi polloi know nothing else than to immediately discard any sense of unity through Australian nationality and but to class on race. I showed my sister a picture of my girlfriend and her first reaction, to my disgust, is- "But she's a lebbo!!".

Edit: pointdexter, unfortunately Duffy was a bit vague in just which sort of asian he levelled his despair at. He shouldn't have noted the academic success of Asian-Australian HSC students so closely to a paragraph on increasing numbers of international Asian uni students.

People ask where im from.. its still Sydney the look is gold..

umm its a pity your sister feels that way..
generally i have slightly more asian friends but its mixed.. and usually they are quite positive about mixed ethnic relationships.. my older brothers are supportive. I think its a matter of people realising they arent the stereotype..

my brother's best friend is middle-eastern descent.. quite an awesome guy he jokes about the australian mid-east stereotypes but its all in jest and knowing limits and us being tolerant..

I think we all should challenge stereotypes.. whatever background.. and just aim to be well-rounded citizens.. but tats a pipe dream realistically

Honestly I hope the best for you... cos intolerance is one of the hardest obstacles to overcome esp. in family.

 

[leetom]

People ask where im from.. its still Sydney the look is gold..

umm its a pity your sister feels that way..
generally i have slightly more asian friends but its mixed.. and usually they are quite positive about mixed ethnic relationships.. my older brothers are supportive. I think its a matter of people realising they arent the stereotype..

my brother's best friend is middle-eastern descent.. quite an awesome guy he jokes about the australian mid-east stereotypes but its all in jest and knowing limits and us being tolerant..

I think we all should challenge stereotypes.. whatever background.. and just aim to be well-rounded citizens.. but tats a pipe dream realistically

Honestly I hope the best for you... cos intolerance is one of the hardest obstacles to overcome esp. in family.

Yeah, a bit of kind-hearted racial profiling is ok, in moderation. For example, after seeing Flightplan my friends and I now joke about laying blame, for whatever reason, on the closest Arab.

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

HAHAHA yeah sooo true
i joke about my leb friend's brother.. asked her how he was finding Silverwater... prison .. and she jokes about my penis..

but it has to be reciprocal.. or self-jokes (e.g. russel peters about indians.. , chris rock does it about afro-americans.. lolz )

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Yea but I think jokes about stereotypes with your friends and that is ok... as is bringing a piece of your ethnic identity to the table as a part of your personality. I just have a problem with;

- People who identify so strongly with their ethnicity that they seemingly have become the stereotype, losing any individual personality they once had.

- People who base their opinions of people based on their ethnicity, despite how they act.

At my school in year 11 two guys came to the school, they were real nice, just normal guys when they first came. Then everyone started egging them on about how gangster they were because they were leb, so they started to assume this new identity and even changed the way they talked.

 

[supercharged]

THis guy is just stupid. The asians he sees getting into professional positions are locals not international students.

International students usually go back pretty soon after graduation (they may do a year or so work experience) but they mostly aren't interested in living here for good. Increasing the number of spaces for local students would have zero effect on the racial background ratios of uni students and lead to unis being poorer from a lack of funds.

Edit: Unfortunately, there are also white Australians who assume another Australians nationality is that of their ethnicity. From my experience, the masses seem to enjoy ethnic segregation as a form of identification and it is embraced by Australians of all races. I just find it pathetic that the only channel for individual expression for so many is flaunting ones race.

Voluntary ethnic segregation often happens because people usually have more in common (interests, shared experiences) with people of similar background.

 

[pete_mate]

with the international students link, it does work.

say there are 10,000 places at usyd

5,000 are domestic and 5,000 international fee paying places

say there is a a ratio of 2:3 anglo celtic to asian people getting uni palces
2,000 anglo celtic and 3,000 asian ethnicity.

the important part is the ratio for international fee paying is 0:1, or 1:1000 or something (australia is very close to asia)

the international fee paying places accentuate the domestic fee paying ratio. (the ratio is a matter of social factors, hard working asian ethic helps for hsc.)

such that in this example, rather than 2:3 the ratio becomes, 1:5 (which i think is quite accurate from what i hear)

it annoys me that i have to compete with foreign students who didnt take the same test as me, or are fee paying etc. the idea of "fee paying" is also ridiculous

with my family being a high income earner, i may pay have paid around 30,000 a year in income tax. 30k x 30 yr working life = 900,000
lets add gst and a crapload of other crap, and capital gains, hmm probly 300k

the budget:
4.7bn expenditure on universities, 195bn in total expenditure = 2.41% gov expenditure. = $28,950

(this doesnt really make sense considering my fathers masters in finance should be worth much more than this. this highlights the lack of funding given to universities)

HECS is like, 20 or 30k anyway, so we'll pay about 60k!

bingo! the same as a full fee paying degree.

okay, so as a domestic HECS student we pay the same as a foreign full fee paying student, that's fair.

but a foreign fee paying student will have 5 extra uai points...

i dont care for racism, i care for fairness, this is not fucking fair.