Tibet (1 Viewer)

[imaginarylife]

I'm curious what everyone thinks about the Chinese occupation of Tibet.

Climbers tell of Nepal shooting

October 11, 2006

Australian and British climbers have described the horror of watching Chinese guards shoot at a group of Tibetans high in the Himalayas, killing at least one of them.

Three climbers from Australia and Britain told Reuters they watched the incident on September 30 in Chinese territory, close to Nangpa La, a mountain pass in the Mount Everest region.

At least 10 Tibetan children were also taken into custody by Chinese authorities, one climber said.

"We felt a bit shocked and upset because we came to climb the mountain and here we are watching people being shot," said British climber Steve Lawes, who was at the advance base camp on Cho-Oyu - at 8,201 metres the world's sixth highest mountain.

The area is about 20km west of Mount Everest.

There has been no official Chinese comment about the incident.

Lawes, who returned to Nepal's capital Kathmandu at the weekend, said the Chinese guards took aim at a group of about 20 or 30 people in dark clothing as they prepared to cross the icy pass into Nepal.

"I heard two single shots, I assume those were the warning shots," he said. "There were two more shots quite widely spaced - bang, bang.

"I saw one person fall. A little later that person got up and went to another 15 metres and maybe there was one or two (more) shots. I think the same person fell."

Another British climber, 44-year-old Steve Marsh, said the victim was the last one in the line.

An Australian climber who declined to be named said: "I looked through the telescope. I saw two objects - the first one looked like it was a backpack and the second one was definitely a body."

The body was lying at the glacier for almost 28 hours before the Chinese soldiers took it away, 42-year-old Lawes from Bristol said.

"I was disgusted that the body was left there for so long."

Tibetan refugee groups, as well as the London-based International Campaign for Tibet, said a young nun was killed in the incident, and a young boy may also have died.

Lawes said soon after the shooting at least 10 Tibetan children, aged between six and 12, walked through the climbers' base camp in single file.

They were escorted by three soldiers and taken to the nearby Chinese camp.

"It was upsetting because we assume they were part of the same group and had been left behind in the shooting," Lawes said.

Hundreds of Tibetans cross the Himalayas every year to Nepal, many making their way to Dharmasala, a town in northern India where their exiled leader, the Dalai Lama, has been living since 1959 after an abortive uprising against Chinese rule.

Nepal is home to more than 20,000 Tibetan refugees. But recent arrivals are not allowed to stay in Nepal and must travel to neighbouring India.

from: http://www.theage.com.au/news/World/Climbers-tell-of-Nepal-shooting/2006/10/11/1160246184596.html

Communist troops entered Tibet in 1950 and overthrew the Buddhist theocracy.

 

[_dhj_]

Yeah I'm also curious about Australia's occupation of Western Australia. What's up with that....

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

The difference is W.A doesn't want independance from Australia (and really who would care if it left ),

"Communist troops entered Tibet in 1950 and overthrew the Buddhist theocracy"

Funny that I don't remember NSW doing that to the W.A state government....

 

[melb22]

The difference is W.A doesn't want independance from Australia (and really who would care if it left ),

I dont think wa would now want to become independent but if it did, it wud make a difference to australia's economy big time. It is growing at 14% right now compared to 1-2% for nsw and vic.

regarding tibet, they have no chance of independence. Every country wants good relationship with china since its global clout is increasing and tibet is just too small for any country to be in the bad books of china. India had given refuge to tibetan exiles and right now dalai lama is living in dharamshala, india along with thousands of tibetan refugees. According to different sources around 80,000 to 4,00,000 tibetans have been killed by the chinese army. With the influx of chinese people from the mainland into tibet, the tibetan culture is gradually being destroyed.

 

[imaginarylife]

http://www.freetibet.org/info/facts/fact1.html , on this website their are some alarming statistics and information about the situation in Tibet. The massive loss of tibetan life at the hands of the Chinese govt. is atrocious, as well as the abuse of their basic human rights.

Also, I find the attempts of cultural genocide rather disturbing and disgusting. China has changed the official language of Tibet to Chinese, rather than Tibetan, which isolates many tibetans from the work force and ability to earn money to sustain themselves. Lessons are also taught in Chinese, a diliberate attempt to try and eradicate their affiliation with their cultural heritage, also Tibetans are taught in school an altered version of history and their culture, which, among other things, omits mention of Tibet's former independance. Many young Tibetans are taught to hate thier parents and their culture, and to mistrust the Tibetan religion.

Tibet was a Buddhist theocracy prior to Chinese invasion, and since then up to 6000 monasteries and shrines have been destroyed. And the majority that are left require a fee to enter, restricting many of the impoverished Tibetans access to their religious sites. It costs some Tibetans a yearly wage to enter some of the monasteries. Also, the Chinese govt has tried to discredit their spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, who is in exile. it is forbidden to possess a photograph of the dalai lama.

Also, the Chinese govt's encouragement of Chinese to move to the Tibetan region has left the Tibetans as a minority in most of Tibet.

Also, the Chinese govt. has plundered the Tibetan environment. An estimation of nearly half the Tibetan forests have been cleared since Chinese Occupation, and an estimated amount of 20 square kilometres of Nuclear waste has been dumped on the Tibetan plateau. Also, the Chinese govt. has exploited the Tibetan mineral resources and rather than funding employment and education for Tibetans, has given the majority of jobs to Chinese people, encouraged to move to the area.

Does anyone else find this disturbing and unfair, especially the lack of action by our govt or other govts, like the US?

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Yeah I'm also curious about Australia's occupation of Western Australia. What's up with that....

Hey, did you hear the Japanese are plotting to take over the world again? Unlike the Chinese, who are angels who never did anything wrong, right?

 

[_dhj_]

What about all the good things the central government has done for the once backwards autonomous region? - the building of infrastructure, investment in science and research, upholding fundamental human rights by liberating its people from a theocracy. What about the recent completion of the 青藏 railway? - an engineering feat which includes the longest railway tunnel and the highest railway altitude in the world - a route which will stimulate the region's economy through increased tourism and awareness of traditional and modern tibetan culture.

 

[imaginarylife]

Tibetans under the Buddhist theocracy had freedom of religion and belief and were not oppressed, the Chinese overthrow of the theocracy did not uphold fundamental human rights by liberating them, but tried to suppress the local religion and the freedom of thought, belief and practice of religion.

Although, it may be argued that the Chinese actions has stimulated growth in the economy, this economic growth, however does not reach the Tibetans, it does not lift the standards of education, health, employment or living standards of the local Tibetans.

Yes, maybe the railway is a great engineering feat, but it is a railway greatly opposed by the local Tibetans. It serves as a tool which allows Chinese govt to hold further control over the region and to further promote the Chinese immigration to the area, and hence further dilute the tibetan culture. It will also further distort the labour oppurtunities in the area and favour Chinese workers. The railway also serves the purpose of allowing more Chinese troops to be deployed in the region, where, it is estimated, already 300 000 troops are located.

the railway is also a serious threat to the local environment, causing erosion, disruptions to migration and native wildlife.

It should also be noted that Tibet was not backward before Chinese occupation. It was an extremely philisophically advanced 'nation', with very low crime rates and internal harmony. The living standards among the Tibetans were fairly high, the first famine (in the modern era) did not occur until Chinese occupation and ill- decided crop plantations. This famine caused massive loss of life. The crops chosen by the govt to be planted could not withstand the harsh environmental conditions. The Chinese invasion has caused a decline in the living standards of tibetans.

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Yeah I was wondering how did you liberate people from Buddhism with Communism? Why did people flee in thousands where communist are in power

 

[hazaar]

free tibet!

 

[Comrade nathan]

It is true that Tibet slave/fuedal was ovethrown and attempts to fully destroy this society were made. Many monstraries were destroyed and many Tibetans were killed. But we are missing the point here. Tibet peasants were the ones destroying the feudal society. The Tibetans being killed were slave owners. The peasants had had enough of living as slaves and began to kill the feudal lords. The revolution in Tibet is very similar to the revolution in France which removed the nobility from power. Do you really think that peasants wanted to be tied to a piece of land and work for a feudal lord to receive a pray and bowl of rice? Tibetans overthrew that slave society in Tibet, the Chinese only added them. The only people fighting against the revolution were Feudal lords and CIA mercenaries.

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

Now I am not saying that Tibet doesn't have problems, nor am I saying that the Tibet nation has cultural and political autonomy under China now. However I can't stand people repeating the lies from that fat slave owning Dalai Lama basterd and the Free Tibet campaign. People need to learn the history of Tibet. I don't see people trying to preserve or glorify European feudalism, why do people want to do it for East feudalism?

 

[imaginarylife]

It's a little strange that the authority that you claim as more reputable and more reliable states that dalai lamas had a "recognized status as gods", when buddhists do not believe in gods. Such inaccuracies throughout this document leaves me questioning the reliability and validity of this source, especially when numerous other sources contradict it.

Even so, this website states that the information contained "is not intended as a personal attack on the Dalai Lama" and actually appears to support the Dalai Lama and his recent actions.

The website also contradicts itself. For example, it tries to create an argument of a terrible and feudal Old Tibet, but supports the Dalai Lama's statement about Tibet "Spiritually it is quite rich".

Also, it was not the Tibetans overthrowing a so called "feudal society", but the invasion of the Chinese Army. hmmm... it is strannge that someone quotes such an unreliable source as more credible than many diverse, primary and well-regarded sources and people, including the nobel laureate, the 14th Dalai Lama.