Treasurers Debate (1 Viewer)

[katie_tully]

I will add more when it is over, I cannot concentrate on two things at once.

 

[volition]

When asked whether Swan believes voters prefer tax cuts or increased spending, Swan says "They prefer both". Heh. Way to sit on the fence.

Anyway, just a general comment, I really dislike all this talk of how the nation needs to be 'economically managed' with all these random expenditures on technical colleges, to match supply constraints and so on etc.

A modern economy cannot be 'managed', it is best left to its own devices. That's the whole point of a market. When things are needed more, the prices for that thing rises to attract it. We don't need the government to do anything for us.

 

[katie_tully]

Didn't that piss off the guy who asked the question. Fair enough though; Do you believe the polls. Which do people prefer? If he can't make a decision, take an educated guess as to what it is the Australian people would prefer, or what would help them more, he is obviously out of touch.

Atleast Costello took a bit. The polls probably show people want more money spent on hospitals, but realistically what would help the average Australian more?

Theyve really hammered home the interest rate thing.

 

[katie_tully]

Well basically thats what Costello said. He said why is it when the Govt were coming up with the various economic reforms the opposition voted against them, yet now that the government has a massive surplus, Labor is adopting many of the same policies.

 

[volition]

Didn't that piss off the guy who asked the question. Fair enough though; Do you believe the polls. Which do people prefer? If he can't make a decision, take an educated guess as to what it is the Australian people would prefer, or what would help them more, he is obviously out of touch.

Yeah, seeing as its EXTREMELY unlikely that people have a 50-50 stance on the tax cut vs increased spending on services thing.

He was just sitting on the fence because that's what pollies do best, appealing to the centre. He wouldn't even budge when he was prodded and clearly didn't understand the point of the question, which was to choose ONE of the two options. Essentially, he was having his cake and eating it too.

I think its quite stupid to think that because >50% of people prefer THEIR own money to be spent rather than given back to them, that this should apply to everyone. How is this fair for everyone who actually would rather the govt give back the money it stole? People don't realise that taxation is no better than theft. But thats ok, because when you can get the public asking the wrong questions, the answers don't matter.

 

[katie_tully]

The poll asked whether people want more money invested in hospitals or whether they want tax cuts. He was asked whether he believes the poll, and which one HE thinks Australians prefer.

Are you being facetious. I can't tell.

 

[volition]

The poll asked whether people want more money invested in hospitals or whether they want tax cuts. He was asked whether he believes the poll, and which one HE thinks Australians prefer.

Yeah, and he answered that he thought australians wanted both, which annoyed me greatly.

So nah, I'm not kidding.

 

[katie_tully]

Oh, I get you.
Yeah, I was equally annoyed. Obviously it's ideal to have the two and I think he was trying to appeal to the masses by answering 'both', but often it's not a case of both it's one or the other.

Least Tello' saw the point of the question.

What annoys me the most about Labor is that because Kevin Rudd earns more than $180,000 a year he thinks that everybody who earns $180,000+ is in the same boat, and that he is speaking for them all when he believes they wouldnt want a tax cut. Sif.

 

[williamc]

Well basically thats what Costello said. He said why is it when the Govt were coming up with the various economic reforms the opposition voted against them, yet now that the government has a massive surplus, Labor is adopting many of the same policies.

Yer, and then they try and tell austalia that they are 'economic conservatives'. fuck off. More like they have no fucking economic idea.

If rudd gets voted in this country will go into economic turmoil, espically with the extremely volatile global economy at the moment.

 

[katie_tully]

I am on resistance.org.au laughing my arse off right now. Laughing and dying a little inside.

Under socialism, the means of producing wealth will be owned and controlled by the majority.

Reminds me of Rudd

 

[katie_tully]

The vast majority of people make their living by selling their ability to work to the capitalists. Even if you work for one of the remaining "public" state-owned companies, capitalists still profit from your work through the subsidies governments give big business out of the profits of state companies as well as your taxes and out of the services the public sector provides to private enterprises to make profit-making just that little bit easier.

Dude, my one question is: who do they think is going to do the work. If we're all 'equal' nobody is going to want to do the work. If a friggin street cleaner is paid as much as a lawyer, what incentive is there for somebody to want to do law? It's gay.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

I think its quite stupid to think that because >50% of people prefer THEIR own money to be spent rather than given back to them, that this should apply to everyone. How is this fair for everyone who actually would rather the govt give back the money it stole? People don't realise that taxation is no better than theft. But thats ok, because when you can get the public asking the wrong questions, the answers don't matter.

Shuddup.

Dude, my one question is: who do they think is going to do the work. If we're all 'equal' nobody is going to want to do the work. If a friggin street cleaner is paid as much as a lawyer, what incentive is there for somebody to want to do law? It's gay.

Could say the same about teaching (hard job, long hours), but I see lots and lots of people in teaching.

 

[Triangulum]

Peter Hartcher's thoughts on the debate:

Peter Costello has presided over the best economic performance in Australia's history, yet he lost the debate against an inexperienced challenger.

Why? Because, with Australia poised to elect a Labor Government on November 24, Costello did nothing to change voters' minds about Labor's fitness to govern.

With the Government headed for electoral oblivion, the onus was on Costello to change the way voters think about Labor and the risk that they are taking with a change of Government.

A 90-minute debate with Labor's treasury spokesman, Wayne Swan, was a prime opportunity for Costello to instil doubt about a Rudd government's economic credibility.

And the economy is Labor's traditional vulnerability, the Coalition's traditional strength.

But all Costello did was to recite well-worn Government attack lines.

These lines have so far failed to make the slightest difference to the electorate's voting intentions.

If they have failed in the past, why would they work today? Answer: They won't.

 

[williamc]

^So that idiot is saying that by Costello not swaying voters opinons he lost the debate. LOLOL.

Dude, my one question is: who do they think is going to do the work. If we're all 'equal' nobody is going to want to do the work. If a friggin street cleaner is paid as much as a lawyer, what incentive is there for somebody to want to do law? It's gay.

Thats why communism will never work in practice, and the a major argument for a decentralised wage determination system. Were people will strive to gain better skills in order to achieve higher income levels. Private school teachers are getting paid as much as the market has allocated. Although, as for public schools, the teachers are getting ripped off.

 

[williams180]

wtf costello won debate for sure hands down. The concept that the challenger always wins is nothing new of course its easier for them to attack things that sound bad and havent been achieved. JH has never 'WON' a debate although in my opinion he wins everything he tries in life and yet he still gets the W come election day. Costello clearly won the debate wayne swan is retarded. Like the moderators fucking stop deleting my posts and send me a personal message losers

 

[katie_tully]

It's the SMH dude. Think about it. SMH. Green Left Weekly...Sydney Morning Herald, the similarities dont end there!

 

[volition]

Could say the same about teaching (hard job, long hours), but I see lots and lots of people in teaching.

Is this one example supposed to apply everywhere? People all want to do hard things for the 'love of it'?

How many people change the oil on a rental car?

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Is this one example supposed to apply everywhere?

Well apparently we were working with pathetic hyperbole ("LAWYERS LIVE THE HARD LIFE AND NO-ONE WOULD DO IT IF THEY WEREN'T PAID MILLIONS OF DOLLARS LOL") so I chose to extend it a bit. But truthfully, I imagine that in an ideal communist society, each worker would do the same amount of work as every other worker. So yeah, a guy who operates the toll booth lever switch being paid the same amount as the guy who works 20 hours a day in the ER is grossly unfair, but no-one would ever want it to work that way. Ideally, the ER person would be paid for doing the equivilent of operating that switch at the toll booth, so I imagine the ER person would be paid the same to do far fewer hours. That's only fair.

Katie, did you know that the commies also want to steal your babies to make Soylent Green?

 

[volition]

Well apparently we were working with pathetic hyperbole ("LAWYERS LIVE THE HARD LIFE AND NO-ONE WOULD DO IT IF THEY WEREN'T PAID MILLIONS OF DOLLARS LOL") so I chose to extend it a bit. But truthfully, I imagine that in an ideal communist society, each worker would do the same amount of work as every other worker. So yeah, a guy who operates the toll booth lever switch being paid the same amount as the guy who works 20 hours a day in the ER is grossly unfair, but no-one would ever want it to work that way. Ideally, the ER person would be paid for doing the equivilent of operating that switch at the toll booth, so I imagine the ER person would be paid the same to do far fewer hours. That's only fair.

I think she raised a valid point: there are different jobs, some jobs are easier than others. Do you agree?

How do you expect to know the correct ratio between "toll booth hours" and "ER hours"?

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Well given that financial dudes can work out a whole host of crap, I don't think it'd be too hard to work out how much work in the ER is proportionate to that in a toll booth.

Do you agree?

Of course, but that was never her sole point. She was trying to attack the fantastic idea of communism through a silly, silly example.