UMAT - Subtle Discrimination Against Asians? (1 Viewer)

[KFunk]

Star Trek is about the Federation Starfleet...

I've never worked out why we can't get some of that medical technology down here.

 

[Lexicographer]

Yeah, I mean, who knew that anything could be fixed by waving a beeping PDA over the afflicted part?

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

UMAT isnt anti-asian is suppose to weed out roter's... those who if not fixed will be the bane of the medical profession..

as Lexi said.. HOUSE IS RUBBISH MEDICINE.. and he does make some pretty retarded mistakes... even i beat him to diagnosis.. and i wouldnt trust me...

honestly why would u care? ... u keep saying you have no vested interest..

Also I have heard law schools want to do similar exams to LSAT (US) but i dunno how reliable tat is.. again med did it.. cos of the MAJORLY limited places..

 

[ManlyChief]

:O:O:O:O Really1??! I thought House, ER, and All Saints were realistic portrayals of the medical profession, just like The Shield is about police, Boston Legal is about law, and Star Trek is about the Federation Starfleet...

So do you mean that I won't be able to win all my cases simply by standing up in court and proclaiming in deep, resonant tones: "Manly Chief"? OshKosh, I had better start paying attention in law classes.

 

[pete_mate]

- AsyLum

Yeah, but that's the point. Doesn't what you say apply to every other profession as well? So why is only medicine/dentistry singled out? Why isn't admission into all those other courses subjected to interviews and such as well?

it's very very simple. THERE ARENT ENOUGH DOCTORS TO GO AROUND. there are too many lawyers.

the umat test is designed to ensure you really want to do it, because it's 7 years, its tough. that's why the attrition rate is high.

most asian parents seem to pressure their kids to do glamorous subjects like these, so eventually the kid will make up his own mind and drop out, his heart may not be with it.

if that happens, the uni/industry has lost a doctor. it's very expensive to train them, so there are only limited places.

 

[prosaic]

I'm not a medical student

The gist of your post Mr Epsilon (why'd you give yourself such an inferior name anyway? See, this inferiority complex is probably what denied you that med spot, tsk tsk). The explanation behind it anyway.

Point taken; now all the rest of you kids should go home you're all just wasting your time here, really. Seriously.

 

[Keen]

Well actually this rumour has been around for 10-15 years. Many doctors even believe this sentiment (even the Australian published an article mid 2005 saying this).
I don't think it really has that much truth to it, but who knows what the admissions department thought. Although I could see how it could be true.


Keen

 

[santaslayer]

1. It's hard to pick the top people for med. UAI's and the external test are not sufficent because MANY people may excel in these departments. An interview is probably the best thing to use as a determining factor for these certain cases. What else can you use?

2. How the hell is the interview a detrimental factor to AzNs in the first place? They still ask similar questions which fulfill certain and same criteria. There is no evidence which suggests that AzNs are shit-er at the English language. You should be admitted if you're AzN anyways...

3. Law students wouldn't get past the law degree if they had shit English skills.

4. Law is a transferable skill whilst med is very limited. I think they still screen you if you are attempting to be admitted as a legal practicioner. This happens later on in your study.

 

[epsilon]

[let's take me as a typical example of an asian who did not make med:] i did not despise medicine. but it wasn't my first choice (by that i mean it was my first preference, but it wasn't what i really really wanted to do).

Lol, I applaud your faith in those interviewer's abilities in weeding out those 'not-so-commited' potential med students from the whole bunch But what if they were mistaken on some occasions? Can you be absolutely sure that that dude who got a UAI of 100 in the 2004 HSC (I think his name was Mr Mok/Mak or something) but failed to get into med school hadn't really wanted to do medicine as well?

Another thing about those interviews, apart from testing the English abilities of potential students, is that it is a subjective test. Whether you get through it or not depends entirely on the discretion of the panel of interviewers. If those interviewers, for whatever reasons, just don't like the look of you very much, or how you speak, or how you dress, or even how you act, your chances of getting in would be severely reduced, no matter what you say in there.

 

[Antler]

Can you be absolutely sure that that dude who got a UAI of 100 last year but failed to get into med school hadn't really wanted to do medicine as well?

If he really wanted to do medicine im sure he would go to Melbourne uni who have a completly ENTER stream so he doesn't have to have good interview skills.

 

[gosh]

being a doctor isnt all about having academic/medical knowledge. it is in part, but you also have to consider interpersonal skills. you can have a doctor with all the know-how but with absolutely no ability to empathise with the patient or to problem solve. marks are one thing but you cant simply achieve these skills through hours of tutoring.
the umat test is not an assessment of how much you want to get into med but rather if you are the right person.

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

Lol, I applaud your faith in those interviewer's abilities in weeding out those 'not-so-commited' potential med students from the whole bunch But what if they were mistaken on some occasions? Can you be absolutely sure that that dude who got a UAI of 100 last year but failed to get into med school hadn't really wanted to do medicine as well?

u cant.. but chances are he's goin to be in melbourne on a national medicine
scholarship

Another thing about those interviews, apart from testing the English abilities of potential students, is that it is a subjective test. Whether you get through it or not depends entirely on the discretion of the panel of interviewers. If those interviewers, for whatever reasons, just don't like the look of you very much, or how you speak, or how you dress, or even how you act, your chances of getting in would be severely reduced, no matter what you say in there.

their guideline for medical interviewing is strict and very uniform.. u seem ignorant of the actual interview process.. if u knew how they did it.. ud understand why its not as bias.. as other interviews.

the UAI makes little difference between a person at 90 and 100.. and it starts to get kinda small after UMAT and interviews.. u cant expect all medical students to just excel at written work.. its a balance.

 

[Frigid]

might i add to the above that one of the interviewers for my UNSW interview was a young asian doctor. a person could then make the converse argument, that my specific interview was pro-asian.

 

[inasero]

im asian and i reckon i did well in the UMAT and interviews...and no House would actually make a shit doctor in real life- he just looks great cos it's TV-land

 

[The_highwayman]

UMAT = revenue

 

[funnybunny]

ha..its funny how unsw say that since introducing UMAT and interview, they hav less students failing year 1....Y U ASK?
well..u cant really compare the different cohorts considering that they changed the curriculum when they changed the selection procedures.....for those who dont knoe, they've changed the curriculum so that theres less theory and more clinical/PBL....well..OF COURSE theres goin 2 be less drop-outs if the workload is less ...f***n DURRH!!
..and for those who think that umat wasnt introduced 2 exclude asians , u r just ignorant.....do u seriously think that when they were decidin on UMAT, they did not hav the slightest premonition of a med class with more non-asians than asians,...or that their son/daughter/nephew will get in??
PS: personally, i rather hav a doctor who can treat/cure my illness, than sum1 who just talks 2 me

 

[funnybunny]

"their guideline for medical interviewing is strict and very uniform.. u seem ignorant of the actual interview process.. if u knew how they did it.. ud understand why its not as bias.. as other interviews."

HAHA>..it is u that is ignorant , my friend//...hav u ever actually gone 2 the interview?? the structure's pretty lame and stupid. .cause sum ppl hav interviews which last for 80mins then they rush through teh guy who goes 2 do their interview next , so he only has like 25mins ...
WTF??? DO U REEALLY THINK THAT IS FAIR???-- basing ur whole career on the fact that u got an interview right after or before sum1 else?? similary, i dont think t's fair that sum1 who has 2hrs of interview training has the right 2 choose where ur career will not lead.. it's f**n pathetic......
then again, i cant complain ..i got into unsw med >>lol:wave:
i think epsilon has got it about rite

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

"their guideline for medical interviewing is strict and very uniform.. u seem ignorant of the actual interview process.. if u knew how they did it.. ud understand why its not as bias.. as other interviews."

HAHA>..it is u that is ignorant , my friend//...hav u ever actually gone 2 the interview?? the structure's pretty lame and stupid. .cause sum ppl hav interviews which last for 80mins then they rush through teh guy who goes 2 do their interview next , so he only has like 25mins ...
WTF??? DO U REEALLY THINK THAT IS FAIR???-- basing ur whole career on the fact that u got an interview right after or before sum1 else?? similary, i dont think t's fair that sum1 who has 2hrs of interview training has the right 2 choose where ur career will not lead.. it's f**n pathetic......
then again, i cant complain ..i got into unsw med >>lol:wave:
i think epsilon has got it about rite

no the discretion is that interviews at Monash, Newcastle , Adelaide and UWA have about 3-4% differences between all examiners...

regardless of the student...
they generally ask the same questions.. in 15 or 80 mins

and yes i have i been to all but JCU's medical interviews.

 

[funnybunny]

hmm...yea..they might ask all the questions, but they usually interrupt u half way throuhg ur answer, when they're running out of time....as opposed 2 sum1 who can articulate their rehearsed answer in full..:mad1:

 

[Hurri]

HAHA>..it is u that is ignorant , my friend//...hav u ever actually gone 2 the interview??

i have i been to all but JCU's medical interviews

OWNED!!

hmm...yea..they might ask all the questions, but they usually interrupt u half way throuhg ur answer, when they're running out of time....as opposed 2 sum1 who can articulate their rehearsed answer in full.

I'm going to take a wild stab at this, but from reading your posts, im going to say you were the first type

And no the interviewers always let me finish although i came to ranting a few times.