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UN envoy hits Israel 'apartheid' (2 Viewers)

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onebytwo

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heres an idea, instead of the israelis acting on pre-emption, perhaps they can set up hundreds of checkpoints inside israel where the attacks actually take place. that way, instead of humiliating and violating innocents everyday in palestine, the israelis can be humiliated in exchange for their security
 

JayB

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ahh, another person's country. so is that all of israel, or just the occupied territories? for that matter, what is the occupied territories, cos i've always understood it as being wherever jews are. people blowing themselves up on busses is pretty much the definition of imminent threat hotshot.

btw, "Even David Ben-Gurion, who was then in Paris, joined the chorus of condemnation, and in an interview to the French newspaper 'France Soir', declared that the Irgun was "the enemy of the Jewish people". " wow, with support like that, who needs condemnation. and he called begin a nazi a few times too, does that make them lovers or something?

"palestinian leaders dont warrant the israeli tanks that roll on the streets for weeks and often months on end, holding palestinians captive in their own homes." no you're right of course, we should let them live their lives because they choose to vote for terrorists. i mean, its not like they support them, right? blood of innocents is on all of the HAMAS voters hands.

pure arrogance is thinking that one set of rules applies to the jews, and another to the islamists. the idf try and minimize damage and death, the palestinians try and propogate it.
 

onebytwo

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Ben-Gurion initially agreed to Begin's plan to carry out the King David Hotel bombing, with the intent of humiliating (rather than killing) the British military stationed there. However, when the risks of mass killing became apparent, Ben-Gurion told Begin to call the operation off; Begin refused.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion
lol....who the hell supports the bombing of a building for the sake of humiliation. a bomb is designed to kill and destroy, not humiliate. if I said i supported the bombing of the opera house for the sake of humiliation i'd be considered (and rightly so) an absolute idiot, terrorist, extremist, etc.
wow, seems he had pretty close ties with Begin, being allowed in on their plans and all!!!!
 

JayB

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the israelis do have hundreds of checkpoints set up inside of israel. point is that the israeli citizens aren't blowing themselves up, the palestinians do. so your point makes no sense.

"However, when the risks of mass killing became apparent, Ben-Gurion told Begin to call the operation off; Begin refused" so close. did you miss the nazi insult? thats not usually how i treat my friends.
 

onebytwo

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JayB said:
"palestinian leaders dont warrant the israeli tanks that roll on the streets for weeks and often months on end, holding palestinians captive in their own homes." no you're right of course, we should let them live their lives because they choose to vote for terrorists. i mean, its not like they support them, right? blood of innocents is on all of the HAMAS voters hands.
thats the freedom of democracy isnt it? are going to deny the palestinians democracy? the very ideology and political structure you support for iraq?
JayB said:
the idf try and minimize damage and death, the palestinians try and propogate it.
errrr...didnt Jordan already post the numbers showing the wrecklessness of the idf...wouldnt really class that as an attempt at minimisation of death
also, check out how many palestinian homes were bulldozed the last few years by the israelis....wouldnt class that as an attempt at minimisation of damage
 

JayB

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all bulldozed in response the suicide bombings, not just randomly like you want to believe. the parents get paid money to send their kds off with a bomb belt, its intended as a discouragement.

freedom of democracy sure, but why be surprised then, when your govt doesnt support your rights, and starts wars. nazi germany started with a vote too. same ideology as HAMAS, different justification.
 

onebytwo

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JayB said:
the israelis do have hundreds of checkpoints set up inside of israel. point is that the israeli citizens aren't blowing themselves up, the palestinians do. so your point makes no sense.
no, we're trying to defend israelis, so defense would mean you set up barriers at home, and humilate all those traveling on israeli roads, strip search them, hold them up for hours, prevent the wounded access to medical help/supplies. if i wanted defend australia from a raging bunch of kiwis, i dont go invade new zealand and hold curfews and have checkpoints there. you invest all interest in defending the border and only the border

JayB said:
"However, when the risks of mass killing became apparent, Ben-Gurion told Begin to call the operation off; Begin refused" so close. did you miss the nazi insult? thats not usually how i treat my friends.
anyone can insult any friend, collegue, teacher, if it means clearing you of any crime. "oh, he insulted his friend, therefore, he didnt support them." silly at least
 

JayB

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they havent gone and invaded "new zealand", they put up checkpoints from "new zealand" into "australia" so that the "raging bunch of kiwis" cant blow themselves up on busses. why isnt there any medical help/supplies in their country? i dont go to "new zealand" for a check up. they dont want to be part of israel, so why should they get to use the positives?

once he saw that people would die, he disagreed and called it off. not that i particularly care for ben gurion, but he clearly was against begin. if you knew anything about israeli history or politics, specifically regarding the 1948 period, you'd know that. but since you're so adamant that ben gurion supported begin, i'm gonna assume you don't.
 

onebytwo

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JayB said:
all bulldozed in response the suicide bombings, not just randomly like you want to believe. the parents get paid money to send their kds off with a bomb belt, its intended as a discouragement.
4,170 palestinian homes have been demolished since 2000
70 suicide bombing attacks in israel since 2000

seems each suicide bomber owned 60 homes - lol
 

JayB

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how many of those were illegal settlements inside a foreign country?
 

onebytwo

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JayB said:
they havent gone and invaded "new zealand", they put up checkpoints from "new zealand" into "australia" so that the "raging bunch of kiwis" cant blow themselves up on busses.
"invasion", "occupation" when comes to israel their same thing, it means destroyed homes (palestine and lebanon), flying drones (palestine and lebanon), rolling tanks (palestine and lebanon), huge civilian casualties (palestine and lebanon) etc
JayB said:
once he saw that people would die, he disagreed and called it off.
oh, so he was under the impression bombing a popular seven story hotel wasnt going to kill anybody? thats funny
 

JayB

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what are they occupying? which lands? lebanon instigated the last war. kinda like new zealand lobbing sheep and complaining.
 

JayB

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the ICAHD says that a large number of homes demolished were illegal settlements. so i'm wondering what the circumstances are.
 

onebytwo

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JayB said:
the ICAHD says that a large number of homes demolished were illegal settlements. so i'm wondering what the circumstances are.
illegal settlements? israel should know about illegal settlements, does that give palestinians the right to destroy jewish homes?
 

JayB

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which illegal settlements? since when is it illegal to settle in your OWN country? and for that matter, look at what happened in gaza and the west bank after the israelis left. look at what happened to jerusalem before the israelis won it back. the palestinians have a 60 year history of destruction and desecration. synagogoues desecrated and destroyed. graveyards desecrated. no complaints from the rest of the world then.
 

JayB

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why are they illegal? "During the Six-Day War of 1967, Israel captured the West Bank from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan". pretty much the definition of theirs.
 

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onebytwo said:
illegal settlements? israel should know about illegal settlements, does that give palestinians the right to destroy jewish homes?
i love the phrase "illegal settlement" being thrown around by all the ignorant anti-Israel people on this forum.

Israel PAID for the land pre 1948 and even then still needed the piss poor excuse for a world organisation called the UN to allow them to gain their independence.

The other parts of the land that they have today have been captured by wars either waged against her or started by her in a pre-emptive manner. (of which some of this land was given back in an effort for some sort of peace within the region)

The Gaza strip and the west bank are the only regions you have some sort of credibility when claiming they are occupied, and in my eyes it doesnt stand, but in terms of discussion we'll pretend you have a slight case.
the Gaza strip is, however, not occupied anymore and you still have DAILY kassam rocket attacks at Israeli cities within the region. so what did the withdrawal from this region aid in any peace process??
the West Bank is very much considered Jersusalem by a lot of Israelis because the majority of jews living within this region are on its borders, close to jerusalem and there are only a few Jews living 'deep' into the West Bank. this may be a sort of peace offering in the near future if it will settle the ill tempered Palestinians and in someway calm them down a bit.
 
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