Uni Entry System about to Collapse (SMH) - (re: UNSW) (1 Viewer)

[MoonlightSonata]

Using people's naive subjects selection at the end of year 10 is not a good indicator at all.

Let's be clear here. Everyone has to do English. Ergo your objection pertains purely to one's decision of whether to undertake different maths courses. Half your objection to what UNSW has done is therefore gone.

Using [maths] to assess the person's abilities in Commerce in such a situation would be fairly silly. Very few students at year 10 had a definite idea of what wanted to do and their subjects selection can be influenced by a lot of things other than a pure dedication to Commerce. A student who gets a UAI of 95 but didn't take maths may be as suitable for Commerce as student getting high 80ish UAI. Much better to let the nerds at UNSW admit that they should give warning and tell the students their selection criteria before the release date.

I think the university is correct in looking at maths results as an indicator. But regardless, the university is entitled to use whatever academic criteria it thinks fit in choosing the people it thinks appropriate for its courses. You may think maths is not important for Commerce, but the university -- the people teaching Commerce, think otherwise.

Maths is indisputably related to Accounting (which is mandatory, at least in first year - and already has a huge fail rate) not to mention Finance and part of Economics.

And I can tell you "How does a uai of 97 with fuck i dont know pdhpe, biology, design and technology, modern history, advanced english prepare you for commerce at unsw?" Because the student with 97 UAI is an intelligent student who can study efficiently and take bridging course for maths if he or she really wants to study commerce.

The university is not laying down a general rule about the competency of prospective Commerce students. Of course there are many exceptions. But the university obviously regards certain subjects as more probable in the selection of appropriate Commerce students. It is not saying "all students who don't do English and maths are unsuitable for Commerce." The university is saying "We have some spare places. We will consider those whose results in subjects related to Commerce and useful for Commerce are decent."

Uni should not suddenly decided to adopt their own selection criteria without informing the students.

The UAC guide mentions it. If people can't be bothered to inquire it's their own fault.

If you really like what UNSW is doing, tough luck, no other uni has used UNSW way of using their own selection process

All universities adjust their cut-off marks. That is the real issue and that is what should have been reported on.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

It may say in the uac guide that for "limited courses at the UNSW, good performance in HSC subjects may be taken in to consideration"

That is pretty clear English.

If people wanted to find out which courses, they could have always phoned up and asked.

 

[dan_viper88]

That is pretty clear English.

If people wanted to find out which courses, they could have always phoned up and asked.

Look man its besides the point if they generally stated this, they should have been more specifc in their course descriptor! Thats all im saying! Because like Smeed said further down from that published statement in the UAC guide it also said's "to refer to the course description for more information" and nowhere in the UNSW B commerce course description does it say that inferior UAIS's and "good" performance in HSC subjects will be considered!

Far out guys stop insisting when your in the wrong!

 

[poloktim]

Anyway, another point. UAI is NOT a complete waste of time. Complete idiots DO NOT get into courses with high uais. Only people who put their efforts into HSC and studied efficiently can into these high UAI courses. UAI effectively show that how much effort you put into your study and how efficiently you studied. A student with 95 UAI but didn't take maths may be as suitable for Commerce as a student with high 80ish UAI but good maths/English marks.

Incorrect. I put no effort into my study when I did the HSC. In fact, I didn't study. I still got a very high UAI. Good measurement of effot, that was.

And I can tell you "How does a uai of 97 with fuck i dont know pdhpe, biology, design and technology, modern history, advanced english prepare you for commerce at unsw?" Because the student with 97 UAI is an intelligent student who can study efficiently and take bridging course for maths if he or she really wants to study commerce.

No, that student is simply good at PDHPE, Biology, D&T, Modern History, and Advanced English. Though UNSW claimed nobody above the cut-off was denied a place. If you were, call UNSW. So this student with the 97 UAI would be admitted into UNSW commerce.

Uni should not suddenly decided to adopt their own selection criteria without informing the students.

Of course it should. We're in an age where more people want to get into university. It's only appropriate the university be able to choose which people it believes will be able to do the required work better (through interviews, subjects studied in the HSC, or other methods, such as a test).

If you really like what UNSW is doing, tough luck, no other uni has used UNSW way of using their own selection process and UNSW has received lots of criticism for it.

No other uni has got criticism for it. They have done it, however. For example, medicine. You need to not only get a high UAI, but you need to pass an exam, and an interview. Creative Arts degrees normally require samples of work. This happens everywhere. It's happened for a long, long time, too.

what are you going to do?? oh whats that...crying at home while thinking of another way to beat USyd in cut-off for Commerce

If you didn't get the place you wanted, tough shit. If you were over the cut-off, try calling UNSW to see what happened. If below, deal with it. You weren't selected, that's life.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

All universities adjust their cut-off marks. That is the real issue and that is what should have been reported on.

I don't really mind the artificial adjustment of UAI cut-offs. Some universities do it because they have a minimum standard (assessed using the UAI) for a particular course. They keep it at that minimum standard if the course becomes less popular. They may use other methods of finding people who may not meet the UAI standard, but still meets a minimum standard of work in the field they applied for.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Look man its besides the point if they generally stated this, they should have been more specifc in their course descriptor! Thats all im saying! Because like Smeed said further down from that published statement in the UAC guide it also said's "to refer to the course description for more information" and nowhere in the UNSW B commerce course description does it say that inferior UAIS's and "good" performance in HSC subjects will be considered!

But you and others failed to take the initiative and call anyway. When I was applying for uni, several years ago, I called my uni to ensure I knew exactly what was going on. When I worked there, they received several phonecalls around this time each year so that the callers knew exactly what was going on. These people took initiative and did something about their queries.

It's not a case of insisting where wrong, it's a case of asking people why they didn't call. If I saw that clause I'd call regardless of whether or not it said it in a course description I applied for.

 

[kami]

Look man its besides the point if they generally stated this, they should have been more specifc in their course descriptor! Thats all im saying! Because like Smeed said further down from that published statement in the UAC guide it also said's "to refer to the course description for more information" and nowhere in the UNSW B commerce course description does it say that inferior UAIS's and "good" performance in HSC subjects will be considered!

Far out guys stop insisting when your in the wrong!

UNSW made the information available that there were additional criteria in place for several of its courses, if the applicant chooses to ignore the possibility that this may apply to their application then part of the onus is on them. UNSW obviously was not hiding this criterion either otherwise such quotes would not have been seen in the article.

As for being specific, there are multiple pathways into university however they are only accessible if you take the time to look them up. Why should this be any different?

 

[dan_viper88]

Look Poloktim dont make generalisations by saying "you and others failed to take the intiative" For your information I didnt even apply for a B Commerce anyway, i applied for a B Business AT UTS as my 1st preference! As far as im concerned your obviously missing my point as like i said 1000 times b4 the B comm has no evident flexible entry schemes stated in any of their descriptions irrelevant of who made a call to the uni or not! Unlike "these other people" that your talking about all the decisons and comments that i make are well informed and i am just re-statting the facts!

 

[dan_viper88]

UNSW made the information available that there were additional criteria in place for several of its courses, if the applicant chooses to ignore the possibility that this may apply to their application then part of the onus is on them. UNSW obviously was not hiding this criterion either otherwise such quotes would not have been seen in the article.

As for being specific, there are multiple pathways into university however they are only accessible if you take the time to look them up. Why should this be any different?

It is very different because they specifically said that it would be "in the relevant course description if there was additional criteria" and in the BCOMMERCE DESCRIPTION THERE WAS CLEARLY NO EVIDENCE OF THIS!

 

[YBK]

Look man its besides the point if they generally stated this, they should have been more specifc in their course descriptor! Thats all im saying! Because like Smeed said further down from that published statement in the UAC guide it also said's "to refer to the course description for more information" and nowhere in the UNSW B commerce course description does it say that inferior UAIS's and "good" performance in HSC subjects will be considered!

Far out guys stop insisting when your in the wrong!

So what if you are not told of the alternate way of getting into the course! Besides, if you insisted to do commerce, then you must have a liking for maths at least. If you did not chose to do maths in year 11 and 12, it's your fault and I think even if you get a 99.95 uai, you still should not be accepted into accounting. Maths is the basis for everything. If you chose not to do maths, then you are clearly an arts person and shouldn't even consider a career related to maths. It just does not make sense.

I have no idea how your logic allows you to insist that UNSW is wrong in what it did, maybe the uni is just trying to screen out stubborn people like you.

 

[kami]

It is very different because they specifically said that it would be "in the relevant course description if there was additional criteria" and in the BCOMMERCE DESCRIPTION THERE WAS CLEARLY NO EVIDENCE OF THIS!

It also says, on both the UAC description and the UNSW online course outline, to call UNSW for further information.

I think something that is a real shame though is how interstate, TPC and IB students wouldn't be recieving the same advantages as presumably UNSW is preferencing those specific HSC subjects and not their equivalents. Oh well.

 

[poloktim]

Hahahahhahahah what a phenomenally poor university UNSW is these days.


I love how the people who are most passionately defending what UNSW has done all attend UNSW.


Come to USYD if you believe in honesty, fairness and equal opportunity for alllllllll.

I don't go to UNSW. I am defending them.

 

[Ennaybur]

hey ash!

got into lib studies.

how are you?

 

[dan_viper88]

So what if you are not told of the alternate way of getting into the course! Besides, if you insisted to do commerce, then you must have a liking for maths at least. If you did not chose to do maths in year 11 and 12, it's your fault and I think even if you get a 99.95 uai, you still should not be accepted into accounting. Maths is the basis for everything. If you chose not to do maths, then you are clearly an arts person and shouldn't even consider a career related to maths. It just does not make sense.

I have no idea how your logic allows you to insist that UNSW is wrong in what it did, maybe the uni is just trying to screen out stubborn people like you.

Your a loser man as if a person with a 99.95 uai cant do accounting what planet are you on anyway? its irrelevant if you do maths or not, if you have the UAI you get in and that is the facts! And if you have trouble with the Maths component, then do a bridging course.

Going by your logic why doesnt the UNSW allow any Tom, Dick or Harry to do commerce, just as long as they did EXT 1 or 2 maths then there into the course, irrelevant if they got crappy marks in all of there other subjects! Yeah that makes sense!

 

[dan_viper88]

It also says, on both the UAC description and the UNSW online course outline, to call UNSW for further information.

I think something that is a real shame though is how interstate, TPC and IB students wouldn't be recieving the same advantages as presumably UNSW is preferencing those specific HSC subjects and not their equivalents. Oh well.

Ohh yeah lets just say in all the course descriptors call the uni for any info that you want! Thats outrageous! How broadly are you talking now!

 

[mimiian]

Let's be clear here. Everyone has to do English. Ergo your objection pertains purely to one's decision of whether to undertake different maths courses. Half your objection to what UNSW has done is therefore gone.

Nevertheless, my point still remain valid, very few students have a clear idea of what they want to in year 10, they may not pick 2u Maths for HSC, but this doesn't mean they cannot be motivated commerce student, majors such as marketing and management requires less numerical skill. The fact that UNSW decided to use subject selection as one of the basis of entry is simply stupid, the fact that UNSW never mentioned the fact that students who achieve good marks in English or Math can get into the degree 10 UAI below the cut-off made it more outrageous.

I think the university is correct in looking at maths results as an indicator. But regardless, the university is entitled to use whatever academic criteria it thinks fit in choosing the people it thinks appropriate for its courses. You may think maths is not important for Commerce, but the university -- the people teaching Commerce, think otherwise..

oh, did u ask the opinion of ur lecturers for marketing and management? Maths is not the crucial factor for all Commerce majors.

Maths is indisputably related to Accounting (which is mandatory, at least in first year - and already has a huge fail rate) not to mention Finance and part of Economics.

As I said, Commerce majors such as economics or marketing requires less numerical skill and students with limited maths ability can still achieve high marks in these Commerce subjects.

The university is not laying down a general rule about the competency of prospective Commerce students. Of course there are many exceptions. But the university obviously regards certain subjects as more probable in the selection of appropriate Commerce students. It is not saying "all students who don't do English and maths are unsuitable for Commerce." The university is saying "We have some spare places. We will consider those whose results in subjects related to Commerce and useful for Commerce are decent."

Again, as I said, a student with 95 UAI but didn't take maths may be as suitable for Commerce as a student with 80ish UAI who did take up maths. A student with higher UAI has no less right to be a commerce student than a student with lower UAI, especially in the context UNSW never informed them that their selection of 2u maths may influence their chance of entry. And the fact that UNSW has spare places for commerce may suggest the cut-off is too high and it's time to lower ur superficial high cut-off. You should also know that beaten by Usyd in Commerce cut-off is not the end of the world.

The UAC guide mentions it. If people can't be bothered to inquire it's their own fault..

As dan_viper88 said it: BUT NO WHERE IN THE UAC GUIDE OR THE UNSW B COMMERCE COURSE DESCRIPTOR DOES IT SAY THAT THERE IS FLEXIBLE ENTRY SCHEME FOR STUDENTS WITH UAI'S 10 POINTS BELOW THE PUBLISHED CUT OFF! Get real man! You obviously have the reading and understanding problem!

No offence, but maybe you should seriously check if you have any reading or understanding problem, if you still think ur view on this subject is not at all influenced by the fact that you do go to UNSW.

All universities adjust their cut-off marks. That is the real issue and that is what should have been reported on.

No uni like UNSW has suddenly decided to adopt their own selection citreria WITHOUT informing the students. Again dan_viper88 said it "if the UNSW wants to sit and give out offers to below UAI students then they Should clearly state THAT THERE IS SOME FLEXIBILTY IN THE SELECTION PROCESS FOR B COMMERCE STUDENTS!"

 

[Sprinkles~]

I love the way all these people are complaining about it so much, yet it'd be a different story if they were one of the ones who missed the cut off but got in based on their marks in individual subjects anyway. It's giving more people the opportunity to study the course of their dreams, to get where they want to go! How can that possibly be wrong?

 

[YBK]

Edited dan_viper88 post since he seems to lack a grasp of basic english grammar.

You're a loser man as if a person with a 99.95 uai cant do accounting what planet are you on anyway? its irrelevant if you do maths or not, if you have the UAI you get in and that is the facts! (GREAT grammar there *rolls eyes*) And if you have trouble with the Maths component, then do a bridging course.

Going by your logic why doesnt the UNSW allow any Tom, Dick or Harry to do commerce, just as long as they did EXT 1 or 2 maths then they're into the course, irrelevant if they got crappy marks in all of their other subjects! Yeah that makes sense!

Tom, Dick or Harry CAN NOT DO EXT 2 MATHS IF THEY DO NOT HAVE PASSION FOR IT OR ARE NOT GOOD AT THE SUBJECT!!! If they do the ext 2 course and get high marks in it, then clearly they are able to do commerce. Provided they achieve an acceptable mark in their other subjects. That is exactly what UNSW did anyway. A UAI of >85 isn't bad.

If you do well in maths, it means you are a capable student and can do good in almost anything. Add to that a good grasp of language, and you have the PERFECT commerce student.

If somebody is simply EXCELLENT at literature and has NO IDEA about maths, then they will NOT do good in commerce. They can get a 100 UAI but if their subjects are irrelevant to the course they're going to do at uni, then what makes you so sure they'll succeed in the course.

You do realise there are people who are good at art style subjects such as music, languages but COMPLETELY crap at scientific subjects. What place does that kid have in commerce, even if he did achieve a high UAI?

And people say that you dont always know what you're going to do when you pick your subjects in year11. Well, that's not all that relevant because you are supposed to pick the subjects that you ENJOY, and NOT the ones that will give you a chance to get into the course that you THINK you'll enjoy.

All you people saying that you would've done maths if you knew it increased your chances of being accepted in commerce should think twice about it, if maths increases your chance of getting into commerce, then it means it's relevant to the course. Now if you didnt chose to do maths because you dont enjoy it, then why would you even think about doing commerce?

UNSW was fair. Stop complaining.

 

[Raginsheep]

To be fair, if you didn't want to do maths, chances are, your marks wouldn't have been great anyways so you wouldn't have got in that way.

 

[§eraphim]

Prediction: More shit actuaries to come out of UNSW.

 

[mimiian]

Incorrect. I put no effort into my study when I did the HSC. In fact, I didn't study. I still got a very high UAI. Good measurement of effot, that was.

Seriously, do u really think u can get a high UAI without any effort into ur study? Ask any sensible man anywhere and you will get the answer NO! What you said is purely subjective individual experience and people have no way of assuring what you said it's true.

No, that student is simply good at PDHPE, Biology, D&T, Modern History, and Advanced English. Though UNSW claimed nobody above the cut-off was denied a place. If you were, call UNSW. So this student with the 97 UAI would be admitted into UNSW commerce.

What about people who get a UAI of 95 but didn't take Maths and missed the official cut-off by 0.1. It is absurd to suggest that these students are no more suitable commerce student than student who get 80ish UAI but did math. After all there are a lot of commerce majors such as Marketing and Management which requires less numerical skill and these students who didn't do maths can still excel in them.

Of course it should. We're in an age where more people want to get into university. It's only appropriate the university be able to choose which people it believes will be able to do the required work better (through interviews, subjects studied in the HSC, or other methods, such as a test).

Yes, University do have the right to choose people which it believes will be able to do the required work better. But it should INFORM the students what is their selection criteria and how they select it. As dan_viper88 said it: BUT NO WHERE IN THE UAC GUIDE OR THE UNSW B COMMERCE COURSE DESCRIPTOR DOES IT SAY THAT THERE IS FLEXIBLE ENTRY SCHEME FOR STUDENTS WITH UAI'S 10 POINTS BELOW THE PUBLISHED CUT OFF! Get real man! You obviously have the reading and understanding problem!

No other uni has got criticism for it. They have done it, however. For example, medicine. You need to not only get a high UAI, but you need to pass an exam, and an interview. Creative Arts degrees normally require samples of work. This happens everywhere. It's happened for a long, long time, too.

yes, no other uni has got criticism for it because they TELL students what they expect. If you read the UAC guide, you will find Medicine requires an interview and UMAT, similar with Creative Arts or Engineering. Again, BUT NO WHERE IN THE UAC GUIDE OR THE UNSW B COMMERCE COURSE DESCRIPTOR DOES IT SAY THAT THERE IS FLEXIBLE ENTRY SCHEME FOR STUDENTS WITH UAI'S 10 POINTS BELOW THE PUBLISHED CUT OFF!

If you didn't get the place you wanted, tough shit. If you were over the cut-off, try calling UNSW to see what happened. If below, deal with it. You weren't selected, that's life..

I already got the place I want, but certainly not in UNSW if it is filled with people like you.

 

[wheredanton]

I already got the place I want, but certainly not in[sic] UNSW if it is filled with people like you.

Reading lessons for you. He doesn't go to unsw.