University fee deregulation (2 Viewers)

[Smooth Operator]

Is anyone one on BoS actually in favour of the proposed deregulations to fees and increase in HECS interest rate? If so, why?

From where I see it, it will honestly do way more harm than good to Australia for the future, but the future of Australia really does not seem to be the priority for the Coalition anyway....

Voice your opinions below.

 

[Queenroot]

UWS freezed the fees

 

[seventhroot]

If fees increase; that will wipe out some of the engo competition

 

[SylviaB]

From where I see it, it will honestly do way more harm than good to Australia for the future, but the future of Australia really does not seem to be the priority for the Coalition anyway....

These changes will increase the funding of universities enabling them to remain internationally competitive over the next century, which also will ensure the continued enrollment of international students.

The changes also improve the long-term fiscal standing of the government. No one will be discouraged from going to university unless they are idiots who don't understand how the systems works or if they were intending to study something useless which they shouldn't really have been studying in the first place.

The benefits from these policies are actually particularly long-term, and given the opposition they're facing the coalition is being very responsible in pursuing changes with benefits long into the future given the average time horizon of a politician.

Of course, students will end up paying more, but these changes ultimately serve the common good.

 

[Smooth Operator]

These changes will increase the funding of universities enabling them to remain internationally competitive over the next century, which also will ensure the continued enrollment of international students.

The changes also improve the long-term fiscal standing of the government. No one will be discouraged from going to university unless they are idiots who don't understand how the systems works or if they were intending to study something useless which they shouldn't really have been studying in the first place.

The benefits from these policies are actually particularly long-term, and given the opposition they're facing the coalition is being very responsible in pursuing changes with benefits long into the future given the average time horizon of a politician.

Of course, students will end up paying more, but these changes ultimately serve the common good.

How exactly are they increasing funding? Aren't they cutting funding, thus allowing uni's to regulate fees to make up for lost income? Or are you getting this straight from the mouth of the Liberal government....

The uni's we have seem to be doing fine already with their international competitiveness, we export a fair bit of education.

I disagree, over the long-term the decrease in skilled labour will generally result in less tax revenue for the government, that being said, the skilled jobs (if we establish any internationally competitive sectors other than digging holes) will be filled by overseas workers. (All generally speaking).
Education is they key to future success of an economy and it seems with these proposed reforms it's aiming at increasing inequality.
Think about it logically, if you come from a low socio-economic background and your family are restricted with the means of supporting you, you will be discouraged. Fees will honestly increase exponentially thus turning educational institutions in to larger money makers than they already are.

From where I see it, these changes do not serve the common good. There is no fiscal emergency, these changes merely seek to promote inequality and serve the interests of lobby groups.
I respect your opinion, but I honestly can't agree at all.

 

[SylviaB]

I disagree, over the long-term the decrease in skilled labour

There won't be a decrease though.

Think about it logically, if you come from a low socio-economic background and your family are restricted with the means of supporting you, you will be discouraged.

if you're an idiot, maybe. because you can still put it on hecs before and not need to make any payments until you earn $50k. When you're actually studying at uni, nothing is different, so it will be just as easy/hard to support you as it was before.

Fees will honestly increase exponentially

That's idiotic.

thus turning educational institutions in to larger money makers than they already are.

Universities having more money is a good thing, generally speaking. They're public univeristies. The money they make is not paid out to investors. Additional funds will be used for additional/better research, improving the ranking of the unviersity. Australia really should be capable of higher ranked universities than what we have now.

From where I see it, these changes do not serve the common good. There is no fiscal emergency, these changes merely seek to promote inequality and serve the interests of lobby groups.
I respect your opinion, but I honestly can't agree at all.

The common good is not served by getting every idiot a degree. We don't need more people going to uni.

It's served by the best and brightest getting as good an education as they possibly can, so they can become brilliant researchers, entrepreneurs and business leaders.

 

[Smooth Operator]

if you're an idiot, maybe. because you can still put it on hecs before and not need to make any payments until you earn $50k. When you're actually studying at uni, nothing is different, so it will be just as easy/hard to support you as it was before.










The common good is not served by getting every idiot a degree. We don't need more people going to uni.

It's served by the best and brightest getting as good an education as they possibly can, so they can become brilliant researchers, entrepreneurs and business leaders.

Still paying off $200k debt in some cases when earning >$50k, that's crazy! Some mathematicians at ANU did some calculations and Pyne would be paying off his uni debts under the proposed system until he was 64. So on top of a property bubble and highly inflated property prices you will have to pay off a nice Uni debt too.
In a Utopian society Uni would be free, I do agree we should obtain some of the cost, but as future tax payers, it would be a great return on investment for the government.

The best and brightest don't necessarily come from upper class households.

And I honestly hope you're joking about uni fees not increasing greatly.... I was recently at UNSW and a lecturer there basically said he is all for the deregulation because the degree is going to be worth a lot more than at another university. Under this assumption the costs associated to prospective students may be a disincentive to receive a higher education and contribute more to the productive capacity of the nation.

 

[nerdasdasd]

Is anyone one on BoS actually in favour of the proposed deregulations to fees and increase in HECS interest rate? If so, why?

From where I see it, it will honestly do way more harm than good to Australia for the future, but the future of Australia really does not seem to be the priority for the Coalition anyway....

Voice your opinions below.

Yep

It will mean Australia will have reputable unis like Harvard, which will attract more overseas students

It might even increase uni rankings

 

[Smooth Operator]

Yep

It will mean Australia will have reputable unis like Harvard, which will attract more overseas students

It might even increase uni rankings

How so? Simply because we've allowed for a less regulated price mechanism? I can see how it could offer more funds to the Uni's, but they're currently being subsidised. The aim so it seems is to turn it in to a class system where the system is much the like USA and that's far from being good.
But hey, each to their own. I personally think it disadvantages people more so than it would bring benefit.

 

[nerdasdasd]

How so? Simply because we've allowed for a less regulated price mechanism? I can see how it could offer more funds to the Uni's, but they're currently being subsidised. The aim so it seems is to turn it in to a class system where the system is much the like USA and that's far from being good.
But hey, each to their own. I personally think it disadvantages people more so than it would bring benefit.

Very much like that.

There will be a class system , but that will benefit higher education....

If "x" is a shit uni, of course there will be less students ..... And then people won't recommend it

Money doesn't determine reputation ..... The quality of their research, teaching and facilities determine that

It does not disadvantage anyone

 

[SylviaB]

The aim so it seems is to turn it in to a class system where the system is much the like USA and that's far from being good.

America has the fifth highest percentage of population with a tertiary education compared with Australia who is tenth. So I'm not sure wh

 

[SylviaB]

Still paying off $200k debt in some cases when earning >$50k, that's crazy!

Some degrees already cost that much so what's your point?

In a Utopian society Uni would be free, I do agree we should obtain some of the cost, but as future tax payers, it would be a great return on investment for the

Again, you keep saying that people will stop going to uni which is bullshit. .

The best and brightest don't necessarily come from upper class households.

I didn't say they did. Though most come from middle-class and up.

And I honestly hope you're joking about uni fees not increasing greatly...

You said exponentially, which IS dumb.

Of course some unis will increase their fees. which means you should either go to a less expensive uni (which is what most lower-income people do now already) or take on your HECS debt because the degree you're choosing will provide returns that justify it. A bunch of new commonwealth scholarships are being introduced too, so if you really are poor and among the best and brightest then you can get assistance there.

 

[wannaspoon]

I'm all for the deregulation, so long as it actually improves the quality of teaching and research from universities (of which, I doubt will ever happen)

 

[Smooth Operator]

Some degrees already cost that much so what's your point?

They are going to cost far more?

I know for a fact people in my cohort have talked about being discouraged from university by the likelihood of fees increasing.

Therefore if there will be commonwealth scholarship and grants, there will be little savings, income will just be distributed differently.

Most graduates aren't guaranteed jobs after uni and the labour market can change drastically in the time taken to complete the degree. The element of structural change indicates that sectors which have promising employment now, will generally not be the case after you complete your degree.

Your narrow-minded approach scares me. There will be many externalities from this, some positive, more negative from where I see it, which undoubtedly are being disregarded or not taken in to account.

I guess it boils down to an ideological basis; that is whether you think universities should be run like businesses or whether they should be fair and accessible to all, for the common good of society.
Lucky it looks like the bill won't even pass to a second reading....

 

[Smooth Operator]

America has the fifth highest percentage of population with a tertiary education compared with Australia who is tenth. So I'm not sure wh

Just because one has a tertiary education doesn't mean they can find work in their field of study due to various reasons. It's well documented.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Very much like that.


If "x" is a shit uni, of course there will be less students ..... And then people won't recommend it

So there currently isn't what is considered 'better' universities in Australia (G8).

I highly doubt fee deregulation will produce better R&D and what not. I don't think that is the governments aim at all, nor will it actually be a visible consequence, they're actually intending to fund they extra research through savings. Therefore deregulation alone would not seem to allow for better research and teaching and what not. Just my opinion though....

 

[OzKo]

I still don't understand this whole 'inequality' debate.

You can debate that students will be worse off, but you can't really argue that this will create inequality.

A former student repays their debt once they pass the income threshold. This is the same for a person from a wealthy background (WB) or a poor background (PB).

For example, a WB graduate and a PB graduate completed the same degree and make the same amount after they graduate. The amount taken out of their tax to meet their HECS repayment for a given financial year will be exactly the same.

 

[BLIT2014]

Well if the government continues cutting funding towards universities, they will need to be able to 'make up' for the funds lost so in that regards I'm in favour of deregulation as it could provide better education facilities long term

 

[Smooth Operator]

I still don't understand this whole 'inequality' debate.

You can debate that students will be worse off, but you can't really argue that this will create inequality.

A former student repays their debt once they pass the income threshold. This is the same for a person from a wealthy background (WB) or a poor background (PB).

For example, a WB graduate and a PB graduate completed the same degree and make the same amount after they graduate. The amount taken out of their tax to meet their HECS repayment for a given financial year will be exactly the same.

Oh definitely with regards to paying the same amount back.
However HECS is also looking to be taken up to a market value interest rate.
However as I said it becomes a disincentive to go to university from a financially disadvantaged background.
To also know you'll have a few 100k debt by the time you're in your mid 20's is also very frightening. It will certainly not help when it comes to saving up for other things in life such as a deposit for a mortgage, those with wealthier parents obviously can afford upfront payments or to receive support. I think this is part of the inequality argument.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well if the government continues cutting funding towards universities, they will need to be able to 'make up' for the funds lost so in that regards I'm in favour of deregulation as it could provide better education facilities long term

I agree they'd need to make it back, however cutting funding in the first place should not even be an option, if not they should be injecting more funding in to universities and reducing expenditure in other areas *cough* coal subsidies *cough*, and gaining revenue in other *cough* effective mining and super-profits tax *cough*. Goes to show how governments are at the command of their big business backers.