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UNSW → A guide to transferring internally to law (1 Viewer)

Magic_in_me

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UNSW → A guide to transferring internally to law


I decided to write this up because it’s something I would’ve really appreciated and I’m sure future prospective transferees will appreciate.

What is an internal program transfer into law?

If you want to get into law but don’t get the (incredibly high) ATAR for it, you can enroll in another UNSW course, e.g. commerce. You can do this for one year, doing 4 subjects per semester (totaling 48 units of credit – 6 units per subjects). Assuming you don’t fail any subjects and your WAM (your average grade) is high enough, you can then transfer into a dual law degree, e.g. commerce/law, arts/law, etc.
If you were enrolled in commerce and then transferred into commerce/law, you should be able to get credit for those commerce subjects, and in this way you won’t really be behind those who got straight into law from high school. It all works out.

What is the advantage of an internal program transfer into law?

The advantage is mainly that UNSW guarantees a minimum of 100 places for internal transfers. This means that at least 100 UNSW students have priority over external transfers. Thus, even if their WAMS are less competitive than external transferees, they can still get in so long as they are competitive against other UNSW students. Furthermore, the transfer is based solely on your WAM rather than your ATAR and WAM. Thus, if you received a poor ATAR, you could still get into UNSW law. Of course, if you received a high ATAR this could be a disadvantage of sorts. Another advantage is that it’s far easier and is free.

What are WAM boosters?

These are subjects in which it is generally considered ‘easy’ to achieve a high mark, thus boosting your WAM and your likelihood of transferring into law. The problem with these is that they generally don’t carry any credit over to your law degree. That being said, you can still do them to transfer into law with no problems. WAM boosters are not instant high distinctions. They’re not easy per se. Rather they reward hard work. If you put in the effort and hours, you tend to get high marks. Note, some WAM boosters are very popular (e.g. Astronomy) and fill up very fast, and it can be difficult for first years to secure a spot.

When to do WAM boosters?

Using commerce as an example, you are required to do two general education courses, which typically become WAM boosters. However law does not require WAM boosters. Now, if you do the WAM boosters and don’t get into law, there’s no real harm done. If you do get into law, the subjects don’t carry credit over.
Some people choose to do one WAM booster each semester, whilst others do two together. It’s a delicate balance. For instance, if you do two in one semester, it could give you more time to study your other subjects as well (assuming you pick easy WAM boosters, ideally with no finals or with an online final). However, that might then leave with you with a really hard semester. If you were to do two in one semester, it would probably be best to do it in your second semester, because those subjects are usually harder than first semester subjects.

Could you exclusively do WAM boosters/an 'easy' degree and then transfer?

Yes, UNSW is very flexible. However, if you just do WAM boosters, you will have used a whole year of time/fees and will have to make up for it all in law. Furthermore, if you still fail to get into law after enrolling in an ‘easy’ degree, unless you genuinely love that degree, you’ll be stuck with a host of useless credits. The risk outweighs the reward. It is far better to do a subject you love and then transfer using a maximum of two WAM boosters that would count to your degree in the event you don’t transfer into law.

What are WAM killers?

These are subjects in which it is generally considered ‘hard’ to achieve a high mark, thus lowering your WAM and reducing the likelihood of transferring into law. Though this is by no means applicable to all, an infamous WAM killer is MGMT1001, so you might want to postpone that for your first year. There’s no harm in postponing it unless you plan to major in management.

What WAM do you need to transfer into law?

Generally, 80 seems to be a safe bet, with 75 probably being the minimum, although I've heard of a 74 getting in (unconfirmed). That being said, it all comes down to supply and demand. If UNSW chose to only allow the minimum of 100 students to transfer and the 100th highest WAM was 90, then the cut-off would be 90. If the 100th highest WAM was 10, the cut-off would be 10 (because they have to accept at least 100 students). The cut-off does seem to drift between 75 and 80 however. For 2015, a WAM of 81 was accepted into commerce/law (yours truly :)).

Is it easy to transfer into law?

Speaking solely for commerce, an 80 WAM is absolutely possible so long as you put in the hard yards. Be sure to hit the ground running as soon as you enter your degree. Doing poorly in a single subject can impair your WAM too gravely to recover in time for a transfer.

Hints/tips

• Again, hit the ground running. You can’t afford to have a bad start.
• Use PASS classes.
• Try to get a hold of materials from people who have done the subjects, e.g. PERDISCO answers, past papers, assignments, quiz answers, etc.
• No mark is too small. Every percentage counts. Obviously you should assign appropriate time and effort to different assessments, but if something is worth 5% don’t just ‘wing it’. 5% is not insignificant.
• If you choose WAM boosters, put in the effort. You haven’t paid for a good mark. You’ve paid for the opportunity to work for one.
• Study throughout the year. It’s hard to do and most of us usually slack off but it really does help.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

If there are any inaccuracies here, please say so. Also, if anybody was successful in transferring internally into UNSW law, feel free to post your WAM.
 
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obliviousninja

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Maybe should include reasons students should consider before they transfer so they have an idea of what they are getting themselves into?
 

isildurrrr1

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Maybe should include reasons students should consider before they transfer so they have an idea of what they are getting themselves into?
Have an interest in law. Don't do it because it's the "in" thing to do. Oh and please don't transfer into law just because you didn't get into medicine.
 

asi9

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I would say 50% of BCom/LLB students do not do law because they want to become a lawyer or work in the legal field. They do it because it's probably the most prestigious double degree, is five years long and therefore gives them the most time to pad their resume when going for IB/MBB and other competitive internships during their penultimate and final years (this is also why some people elect to do an additional honours year as well... equally useless from a content perspective but slightly less painful).
 

Chazure

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To add to this excellent post, i'll give a perspective from an external applicant to UNSW Law.

I personally transferred at the start of this year (2014) from ANU with my Science/Economics course to UNSW Economics/Law.

The website cites admission for externals is considered under a 50/50 ATAR/GPA formula.

My stats are as follows:
2011 ATAR: 93.80
GPA: 6.36/7 (5 HD, 5 D, 1 C)

Mathematically, l felt as though my ATAR was low enough that no matter how high my uni marks were to pull it, the combined score would be much lower than many other applicants with stats such as 98 ATAR/ 6.0. However, the website does mention a certain amount of 'discretion' is used when considering applicants with relatively noncompetitive ATAR's such as myself. One factor might have been that my most recent semester was a 'clean sweep' of 4 HD's which was astronomically better than my other semesters to date and demonstrated an upward trend of improvement, but this is speculation.

All in all, as i'm writing this on the day ATAR's come out, l would recommend prospective UNSW Law students to start another course at UNSW and transfer internally if possible. The hundred secured places is a powerful advantage. I have met a bunch of other transfer law students this year and pretty much all of them are internal transfers. Furthermore, if you decide after one year to apply for USYD/MACQ/UTS Law instead, those schools to my knowledge don't place any distinction between internal/external applicants, so you'll be on even footing anyway.

A little piece of advice in terms of actually achieving the WAM/GPA. This is obviously a tricky question as the correct answer depends on the individual persons skills and situation, so people should be wary of absolute statements (eg. comm is easier than arts is easier than science). The most intuitive thing to do is that most law programs are combined degrees, (eg. Arts/Law), so you should enroll in the other side of that program (eg. Arts). I would recommend this for two reasons. Firstly, you do want a fair bit of credit to transfer over when you get into law. One or two subjects is fine but just remember every one symbolizes both lost time and money. Secondly, a dilemma l faced in my first year was that you might be super keen and excited for law, but in the meanwhile, you have to really inspire yourself with some other interest. I know some people can do it, but for me, l need to be somewhat engaged and interested to even have a chance at obtaining the really high marks required. If you were planning to do a combined program, you must have had some interest in the side that compliments law and you need to leverage this for one year.

There are some other considerations l could talk about such as the quantitative/qualitative difference (choose subjects that have 100% correct answers rather than philosophy essays) but l feel the above stated reasons hold precedence. As someone that has done at least a single course in the faculties of arts, science, commerce, engineering and now, law, l will state that it is a considerable achievement to get the WAM/GPA required for law in all of those fields.

Good luck for all applicants for 2015 and beyond!
 

Trans4M

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Yes our Dean mentioned this. If you having been doing well in university despite not a very high ATAR, he may still accept your application as he thinks you have potential. He is of the opinion that ATAR is an assessment at one point in time and should not decide everything.

If anything I think he implied university performance is a better indicator than ATAR.
 

Magic_in_me

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To add to this excellent post, i'll give a perspective from an external applicant to UNSW Law.

I personally transferred at the start of this year (2014) from ANU with my Science/Economics course to UNSW Economics/Law.

The website cites admission for externals is considered under a 50/50 ATAR/GPA formula.

My stats are as follows:
2011 ATAR: 93.80
GPA: 6.36/7 (5 HD, 5 D, 1 C)

Mathematically, l felt as though my ATAR was low enough that no matter how high my uni marks were to pull it, the combined score would be much lower than many other applicants with stats such as 98 ATAR/ 6.0. However, the website does mention a certain amount of 'discretion' is used when considering applicants with relatively noncompetitive ATAR's such as myself. One factor might have been that my most recent semester was a 'clean sweep' of 4 HD's which was astronomically better than my other semesters to date and demonstrated an upward trend of improvement, but this is speculation.

All in all, as i'm writing this on the day ATAR's come out, l would recommend prospective UNSW Law students to start another course at UNSW and transfer internally if possible. The hundred secured places is a powerful advantage. I have met a bunch of other transfer law students this year and pretty much all of them are internal transfers. Furthermore, if you decide after one year to apply for USYD/MACQ/UTS Law instead, those schools to my knowledge don't place any distinction between internal/external applicants, so you'll be on even footing anyway.

A little piece of advice in terms of actually achieving the WAM/GPA. This is obviously a tricky question as the correct answer depends on the individual persons skills and situation, so people should be wary of absolute statements (eg. comm is easier than arts is easier than science). The most intuitive thing to do is that most law programs are combined degrees, (eg. Arts/Law), so you should enroll in the other side of that program (eg. Arts). I would recommend this for two reasons. Firstly, you do want a fair bit of credit to transfer over when you get into law. One or two subjects is fine but just remember every one symbolizes both lost time and money. Secondly, a dilemma l faced in my first year was that you might be super keen and excited for law, but in the meanwhile, you have to really inspire yourself with some other interest. I know some people can do it, but for me, l need to be somewhat engaged and interested to even have a chance at obtaining the really high marks required. If you were planning to do a combined program, you must have had some interest in the side that compliments law and you need to leverage this for one year.

There are some other considerations l could talk about such as the quantitative/qualitative difference (choose subjects that have 100% correct answers rather than philosophy essays) but l feel the above stated reasons hold precedence. As someone that has done at least a single course in the faculties of arts, science, commerce, engineering and now, law, l will state that it is a considerable achievement to get the WAM/GPA required for law in all of those fields.

Good luck for all applicants for 2015 and beyond!
Cheers.
 

Magic_in_me

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Yes our Dean mentioned this. If you having been doing well in university despite not a very high ATAR, he may still accept your application as he thinks you have potential. He is of the opinion that ATAR is an assessment at one point in time and should not decide everything.

If anything I think he implied university performance is a better indicator than ATAR.
Out of interest, what percentage of the cohort are transfers as opposed to people who got straight in from year 12? Also, does law accept many students?
 

Trans4M

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Out of interest, what percentage of the cohort are transfers as opposed to people who got straight in from year 12? Also, does law accept many students?
From memory there are about 350-375 first year students. 250 coming straight from Year 12 and 100 internal transfers. I think there are are about 15-25 external transfers. However the numbers apparently drop to about 200-250 by final year. People eventually realise law is not for them so they drop it.
 
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volocity

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this is exactly what i needed! I just graduated and since i didn't reach the atar, i'm looking at what i should do in first year. I was thinking of doing something at usyd but then unsw does the whole '100 internal transfers guaranteed' which is quite advantageous so now i'm thinking of whether to do something there for first year. I just feel so scared and worried about whether i won't get into law :// i've been reading other threads and people with impressive atars/gpa's still don't get accepted!!
 

Magic_in_me

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this is exactly what i needed! I just graduated and since i didn't reach the atar, i'm looking at what i should do in first year. I was thinking of doing something at usyd but then unsw does the whole '100 internal transfers guaranteed' which is quite advantageous so now i'm thinking of whether to do something there for first year. I just feel so scared and worried about whether i won't get into law :// i've been reading other threads and people with impressive atars/gpa's still don't get accepted!!
Just to clarify, UNSW doesn't look at your ATAR if you apply internally. If you're feeling scared and worried about getting into law, then you should take extra care when choosing your degree. I say this because you don't want to apply for an 'easy' degree you have no passion for and then if law doesn't work out, be stuck with it. All the same, I'm glad this helped.
 

Confound

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what atar and wam do you need for external transfer?

is 82 wam safe?
 

Ayoo

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I was able to transfer with a wam of 78.5
From my research it usually hovers around 77-79 so if you get 80 ur pretty set. IMO I think it will stay about consistent for the foreseeable future as a lot of able students do actuarial now which means there's less competition for those law places.

However as OP said one subject stuff up can cost you dearly and I'd recommend doing a gen ed like astronomy if you have a wam lower than 83 after 1st sem just to be safe.
In my case I had a wam of 81.5 after first sem and I tried statistics which I bombed out (failed the finals, got a pass in the end which really affected my wam) although I got distinctions for all my other subjects had I not done the gen ed in which I got an hd for I doubt I would've made it.

From a more specific perspective I think people looking to get good first year wam should definitely do business finance in the first sem (Robert tumarkin is a good and kind lecturer) also if you're good with maths and looking to do a bit of ecos quantitative analysis would be pretty easy. Also try hard in the mid sems for micro and macro since the average is really low 10/20 in them and it's a good opportunity to differentiate yourself.
 

petercat

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So I have a question regarding double degrees.

If I start out in uni with say Commerce/Computer Science for 1st year and want to transfer into Commerce/Law, is this possible at all? Commerce would still credit the same as a single degree, yes?
 

Trans4M

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So I have a question regarding double degrees.

If I start out in uni with say Commerce/Computer Science for 1st year and want to transfer into Commerce/Law, is this possible at all? Commerce would still credit the same as a single degree, yes?
Yeap. However if you did any Computer Science course in first year, it will not be credited to your Com/Law degree.
 
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Of course, if you received a high ATAR this could be a disadvantage of sorts. Another advantage is that it’s far easier and is free.
For people that received a high ATAR they can still apply to UNSW law through UAC. That way their ATAR gets considered. Of course I encourage those people to apply via the internal program transfer route as well. No harm in casting your net as wide as possible (apart from the administration fees you have to pay UAC for program transfers)
 

teeniebao

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Such an insightful post! I thought it was extremely handy reading the thread while applying for my IPT. I thought I would place in my experience with the system. I ended up receiving an atar of 85. Long story short, I applied for a partner course to a dual degree that I enjoyed (Criminology and Criminal justice - intriguing theory) and aimed for a decent wam. After 1 year of study, my final wam was 76.35 (admission for 2016) and was accepted into the course.

I honestly believe it rotates around supply and demand. If you were to apply in a year where the cut-offs are much higher than the 80 wam is the safe call. However, it doesn't mean wams of less than 80 will not receive an offer. It just remains competitive. Best of luck for those looking to transfer through IPT! xx
 
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