Let me preface this by saying that I did a software engineering degree at UNSW so account for bias as you see fit.
But UTS sucks. Their computing graduates have no skills, no programming ability and no motivation. Probability suggests that there are exceptions to this rule, but I have yet to find one. I have been in the industry for years now and there are UTS compsci/IT graduates everywhere... and they don't know shit. I have no idea what UTS is doing, but from the looks of it they're simply handing out their degrees on a silver platter to anyone who asks for one.
UNSW attracts the top students across the state, yet we still had about a 50% fail rate in the first year computing course; the courses are really hard but they're rewarding. At UNSW, you will have sleepless nights on your computer/in the lab. You will kick, scream, shout and bang your keyboard against the wall. The flexibility of the computer science degree will lead you to any avenue of computing you want to explore including game development. Ex-students from UNSW founded and developed for Team Bondi, the people who developed LA Noire published by Rockstar. I specifically remember this because they gave a seminar at UNSW, seeking UNSW students to work on it and gave a preview of the game in its early stages (5 years ago).
According to your sig you're not doing too well at math. If you're struggling with mathematics though you might want to fix that up very quickly. As extension mathematics is assumed knowledge and they pretty much go through most of extension 2 math and well beyond within the first semester.
Here's the lowdown: if you want a job, if you've finished the hsc thinking "I finally finished", if you want to cruise through uni, partying and bludging with the purpose of getting a piece of paper that you'll try to use to convince employers that you know something, go to UTS. If you want a career, if you've finished the hsc thinking "I can now finally start learning", if you're really passionate about computing and you're willing to spend your coming years struggling, working harder than you ever have before in order to gain the experience and knowledge to be able to compete with people in the computing industry across the globe, then go to UNSW.
Hi there
aha, I can agree with some comments made here. Many of the first year IT subjects at UTS are very common sense based, and shouldn't be subjects in the first place. There are a lot of business / IT subjects. E.g. What is a requirement, how do we define one, what diagrams do we use to represent INFORMATION systems, how do you interview people, what is a questionnaire? I did IPT, IT VET and SDD for the HSC, and I found these first sem uni subjects pretty boring, and one of my second semester subjects is pretty much a direct repeat of one from first semester, but goes into more depth about different standard diagrams applicable to that subject only.
However, we did do 2 technical based subjects in sem1 (Programming Fundamentals & Web Systems) which I found far more enjoyable than the other soft business IT subjects, such as communication for IT pros, Intro to Info Systems (worst lecturer ever, didn't even speak English, which showed us YouTube videos and didn't know how to operate the volume - but apparently every uni has one of these lecturers , so meh).
I'm now in my second sem, and I'm yet again doing 1 soft IT subject (Business requirements Modelling - which I hate so much (but it's still much more relaxed than maths
, For one of my recent assignments. I procrastinated until the last 2 days it was due (this is not like me), I see no value in drawing up diagrams which are hardly used within the industry even though people say they are, I've yet to encounter them to be officially used, except for use case diagrams which I saw a pdf from Intel use), and 1 technical subject (Networking essentials), as well as undertaking my first full-time internship (I do my uni subjects at night). As I'm on a fast-tracked scholarship.
Take this into account. UTS doesn't offer computer science degrees, although they used to in like 1997. The closest degree to comp sci at UTS would be one of the ICT Engineering degrees, which let you major in Computer Systems, Software Engineering or Telecommunications.
The IT degrees have less of a focus on the mathematical theories and really low level stuff like Hertz and frequencies of waves. (although you can elective in maths and science subjects if you want), but they rather focus on real applicable office IT work knowledge. E.g. How to manage networks, how to develop Java & C# applications, how to use and write basic UNIX shell scripts, how to represent IT systems on paper, how to write up requirements for systems, how to communicate properly with clients, or to a room of 40 people.
I'm currently on my internship, and I have to say I'm pretty much doing a Business Analyst role (working with emails, spread sheets and ringing people/managers everyday) btw coffee is a must to survive. I do have a coding project, but it's a small project (involves around 5% of my total time at work), and I haven't been taught PHP, MySQL or JavaScript at uni yet. (These are available through an elective, called internet programming, but I knew a third year student, and he said the exam was shockingly put together, the exam had heaps of typos, as if the lecturer was drunk while writing it up - Sometimes I do doubt the educational quality at UTS).
From previous knowledge I think UNSW Comp Sci specialises with C and Java, but I could be wrong. I have friends doing it (and they had heaps of maths to do in their first year - It's around 3 maths subjects for comp sci at UNSW, and I think 5 maths subjects for soft eng in year 1 and 2). I have thought about changing numerous times to UNSW Comp Sci or soft eng. But it's probably not worth it for me in the end. I'm getting free funding to pay for my uni fees + a money to spend on other stuff like food, travel and computers etc, I get 1 year work exp, and I only have 2 years left for my degree. If I change now I would add another year or two and be forced to pay my uni fees once working after uni. Also I haven't done a maths subject for 1 year now and I wasn't the best at it either during the HSC - I started to despise it and never wanted to do it at uni - but I still managed a band 5, so I would require an additional $400 bridging course fee just to satisfy that requirement. So I'm going to stick with my current course and use up my electives on the technical programming subjects which I enjoy.
Just a note, no course will have all of the perfect subjects (especially in first year). I speak with computer science graduates at work, and they never have to use maths whatsoever for their job. And they work in IT with UNIX systems. That's why I think these maths and lame common sense IT based subjects are just 'course fillers'. A lot of people at work never got degrees full stop. They just took little courses here and there, and knew people in the industry. I have friends doing maths and computing degrees, and they hate the maths components of the degree, IT is like a budge for them because their maths work is so involved. In my personal opinion, I believe that IT technical subjects are better to learn, because these can be applied to anywhere in the real world. So can communication subjects, but lets face it, if you can talk and write in English, you're good for the real-world.
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>>So if you want to challenge yourself (and I mean really challenge your mental aptitude) then go for:
--> Computer Science (3 years -
http://www.handbook.unsw.edu.au/undergraduate/programs/2012/3978.html) at UNSW or:
--> Software Engineering (4 years with 60 days industry experience [note you have to find your own work] -
http://www.handbook.unsw.edu.au/undergraduate/programs/2012/3648.html) at UNSW or:
--> Take up ICT Engineering, with diploma in professional practice (4 years + 1 year internship [note you have to find your own work or the uni can HELP you find a company] -
http://www.handbook.uts.edu.au/courses/c10061.html) at UTS.
--> Or try taking up Co-op scholarships for both UNSW and UTS, in Engineering, comp sci or IT. Any of them will be of great benefit both financially, friend building and with your career building activities.
>>If you don't want to get involved with all the mathematical concepts and would like a minimal programming experience (but not limited to minimal due to electives in programming), go for a:
--> BIT (3 years fast-tracked Co-op course with 1 year internship included within 3 years via a SPONSORED COMPANY
http://www.handbook.uts.edu.au/courses/c10143.html) at UTS, or:
--> Bachelor of Science in IT, with diploma in professional practice (4 year IT course with 9 month industry experience [note you have to find your own work or the uni can HELP you find a company] -
http://www.handbook.uts.edu.au/courses/c10152.html) at UTS.
USyd has some Comp & software Engineering (requires physics) and IT courses (requires maths ext 1 topics), but I don't personally know anyone doing IT or Comp sci there. Their IT course is one big umbrella, and lets you major in Info Systems or Computer Science after first year.
At the end of the day, from my current experience through job application websites, attending career fairs and just networking with people from work, I find that employers don't really care WHAT you get your degree in, but simply that you HAVE a degree to support yourself, preferably in computing, whether it's in IT, comp sci, software engineering, computer engineering or other related degrees. You see university can only teach you so much, it's there to help individuals get started, to explored what's involved within their field of choice. Thereafter it's up to the individual to go out of the sandbox environment and learn for themselves. This is what defines true learning and will get you talent and ultimately a dream job. A degree is just a piece of paper which shows you did something after school. (I was speaking to a Microsoft representative at a careers fair once, and I asked them "Do I need a degree in software engineering, to get a job as a software engineer) and the lady replied "No, Microsoft takes applicants from all sorts of degrees, for instance, we would take on a person with a marketing degree as a software engineer, as long as they had the aptitude and projects to showcase their ability.".
One of the main reasons I went with IT at the start of the year was because I didn't exactly know if I was sure I wanted to specialise in software programming. So I took a broad IT degree which was sponsored, so I was like why not?, it's a win-win situation. I'm glad I did, because it showed me a lot about IT which I never knew before, I see different avenues within the IT industry much clearer than before. However, I quickly started to see that I wanted to get into software development. Turns out whatever job you do in IT you're going to be in front of a screen, I may as well be developing something. So if you're sure now that you want to go into software dev or something technical related like networking. Maybe a Computer Science degree would be slightly more advantageous than say a business focused IT subject, with less emphasise on Technical stuff (I'm not saying the technical side is neglected, but it would be significantly less than what a computer science degree has to offer).
Sorry for the long post. But I too, was in a similar situation to yourself about a year ago, and it still comes back to haunt me at times. I think I've made the right choice. My course is generally relaxed, but my contact hours exponentially increased from sem1 (13 hours a week (3 days)) to second semester (full-time work 40 hours a week gone + 6 hours on subjects at night) - and my commute is a bitch too (3-4 hours a day) - but I chose a far away place, and balancing two subject loads (I opted for 2 subjects this sem so I don't have to do 5 subjects next sem, the norm is one subject during industry placement).
I hope you found this helpful, and hopefully it can serve as a guide to others as well. If you (or anyone else) have any questions please feel free to contact me.
-MrBrightside
