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Virginia Tech Shootings (Merged) (4 Viewers)

Tulipa

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Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

Serius said:
you know very well guns are restricted to mentally capable adults[disproving your scenario two fold] who have had a background check as well as most states making you take a gun safety class.
Is that here?

It sure as hell isn't in every state in the USA. Virginia for one? Don't need a permit to carry a gun.

Do you have gun toting idiot relatives in the States? No? Trust me, it's not that hard to get a gun there. Making it readily available? To who? For what purpose? To kill people on sight? What if they're not actually committing a crime. People would get far too gungho and carried away with it.
 

GenHalfWhit11

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Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

Ok... as someone who is from the US and still living here, I feel I must comment.

Yes, these tragedies are horrible; however, the general US population is not to blame. Not everyone is bad here. There are still bad people everywhere. They are not only in America. Making rules against people bearing arms isn't going to necessarily change that. I think it may be a little bit too late for our generation in American society to change what makes people choose to use weapons in this way. Look at Canada. Practically every family in Canada owns a gun... everyone in the United States does not. Have they ever had school shooting or massacres similar to those in the United States? No... The percentage of people owning and carrying weapons is higher; however, they do not use them for the purpose of killing their fellow citizens.

I believe something is seriously messed up in American society. I think people have been conditioned on a large-scale level to be almost immune and apathetic to situations like this. Some people in our country, as evident from this incident, have had their visions of reality so distorted that things like this can happen. I don't think the problem comes with people carrying weapons. If somebody wants a gun here, or anything else, they are usually able to obtain it. For most legal weapons, all you do is go to a store and tell them you want a gun, wait for a few days, then it is ready to be picked up. Most automatic weapons, being illegal, can be obtained fairly easily from any illegal arms dealer. If someone is motivated enough, they are not that hard to find.

There are bad or troubled people everywhere in the world. Maybe our society is to blame for this incident, but you have to remember how dense the US population is with a variety of different cultures and social settings. Our reality is a process that has been underway for years and I cannot fathom what our government will be able to do in order to reverse the monster it has made out of many people's minds. This perception has become many people's reality and in every country in the world you will find a different perception of reality, no matter how slight it may be. We are not a bad country, but still everyone else sees all the horrible stuff that comes out of our country every day. I have to admit, this is definitely the worst massacre we have seen in United States history. Still, there is no need to generalize one person's troubles onto the rest of our nation. We are as appalled as everyone else that this has happened and we wish that something could be done to stop tragedies like this. Still, we know that controlling guns is not necessarily going to help anything. The only thing that can help stop incidents like this is long term conditioning. If a sick person sees his only way out is through reenacting some violent video game and killing a bunch of people, is it possible that his sociopathic qualities are beyond his control and something his nation made him into? If it is not the nation's fault, then maybe there is nothing we can do to stop this besides greater security and reaction time to incidents like this. I really don't see the possibility of us eliminating all of our vulnerabilities; however, this may be our only option at this point. Fixing people's outlets and the way they approach emotional trouble is something that takes a lot of time and it cannot be accomplished in one generation when it has been done on such a widespread level. Not everyone is obviously affected; however, it is almost impossible to determine who is at high risk. We just have lots of work to do and I doubt this will be the last time something like this happens.



-Whit
 

jemsta

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Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

you said yourself that itll be immensely difficult to get more tighter gun control in america, which is why here in australia, there hasnt been a huge massacre since port arthur because of it
i dont think itll be that easy to just restrict the number of firearms that enter the country
 

Tulipa

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Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

jemsta said:
you said yourself that itll be immensely difficult to get more tighter gun control in america, which is why here in australia, there hasnt been a huge massacre since port arthur because of it
i dont think itll be that easy to just restrict the number of firearms that enter the country
It's not the number of guns, it's the rules surrounding ownership of said guns.

Even though it would be immensely difficult, they should at least try. Modifications on a federal scale for example, not just state level.
 

jemsta

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Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

which is what i said earlier in my post
i guess you have to do something, whether its difficult or not, so enforcing stricter rules on ownership of guns is the first step
 

Not-That-Bright

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Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

you said yourself that itll be immensely difficult to get more tighter gun control in america, which is why here in australia, there hasnt been a huge massacre since port arthur because of it
I think that could be a little dodgy... I mean it's not like there's exactly been heaps of 'huge massacres' and it hasn't been that long now.
 

jemsta

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Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

yeah i know there hasnt been huge massacres until today, but between the columbine and virginia, school shootings has still occurred, but on a much lower level, in terms of deaths, but then something has to be done to prevent something like this ever happening again
 

Tulipa

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Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

jemsta said:
yeah i know there hasnt been huge massacres until today, but between the columbine and virginia, school shootings has still occurred, but on a much lower level, in terms of deaths, but then something has to be done to prevent something like this ever happening again
That won't happen.

No matter what you do, people will be able to get their hands on something.

You just have to make it well ... harder I guess.
 

wheredanton

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Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

volition said:
http://www.davekopel.com/2A/Mags/Get-More-Guns-Into-Law-Abiding-Pockets.htm
Well here's a case where someone might have shot the attacker (in a restaurant however), but couldn't because of Texas gun laws.
I love the imagery. Twenty people tutorial...everyone in the classroom with a Glock 9mm in a holster around their waist - just in case a crazy person with a gun (on the assumption that those in the tutorial are mentally balanced and stable) bursts into the room.

Most super libertarians who support the right to bare arms without qualification like to speak of the responsible gun owner and a nut case as if they are different categories of person. This argument forgets that a responsible gun owner can become a murderous gun user. Often people who use guns to murder were once such 'responsible gun owners'.
 
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aussiechica7

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Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

Question: why do American civilians need guns? What? Are the British coming back?
 

blahmeh

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Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

this is a major thing that has been coming up all the time in debates and stuff, its been on around for a while- to enfore STRICTER gun ownerships laws.

This massacre, hopefully should have just slapped America to their senses- Regarding gun ownership laws.
 

Serius

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Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

blahmeh said:
this is a major thing that has been coming up all the time in debates and stuff, its been on around for a while- to enfore STRICTER gun ownerships laws.

This massacre, hopefully should have just slapped America to their senses- Regarding gun ownership laws.
exactly, hopefully the media will lay off the NRA and realise that to carry laws would have prevented this.
 

volition

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Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

wheredanton said:
I love the imagery. Twenty people tutorial...everyone in the classroom with a Glock 9mm in a holster around their waist - just in case a crazy person with a gun (on the assumption that those in the tutorial are mentally balanced and stable) bursts into the room.
Well not JUST for the chance that someone bursts into your tutorial, the point is some of them would have guns for the purpose of self-defence (to and from uni and daily life in general). Not all of them have to have guns, even one or two having guns could have potentially stopped the gunman.

The fact that it seems a funny picture doesn't make it wrong anyway.

wheredanton said:
Most super libertarians who support the right to bare arms without qualification like to speak of the responsible gun owner and a nut case as if they are different categories of person. This argument forgets that a responsible gun owner can become a murderous gun user. Often people who use guns to murder were once such 'responsible gun owners'.
Yeah ok, it's certainly possible that someone could do murder (just as they could with a knife or car), but at least the stats generally point to decreased crime in the USA states with more lenient carry laws.

In Australia's case however, I don't think it'd make much difference whether or not guns are legalised, I think the crime rate would be low as it generally has been.
 

dagwoman

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Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

Serius said:
How would everyone owning a gun make a shooting more likely? it would be a massive deterent if every state allowed anyone to carry a gun on them because as soon as some fool tries to pull a klebold, half the class pulls out their own weopons and shoots him down before he can kill a dozen people.
Do you know how much more likely and common it is for someone to be accidentally killed or injured by people havings guns that it is that someone's going to shoot down a potential murderer?


Also, as a side note, in American culture, guns=patriotism. That's one of the reasons it's so hard for them to consider laws, when it's their "constitutional right".
 
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