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Who thinks the HSC is unfair? (1 Viewer)

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Yeah they would. I didn't go to a top selective school yet i still beat lots of kids in selective schools. But according to you that cannot happen.
IE. Seeing as it's true for me, you're statement is incorrect.

And why would the kid get the same results? Because if they'd get a higher rank in the lower ranked school to counteract the fact that they go to a crap school. For eg if i went to a school ranked 600th and i was smart i'd come 1st in my subjects i'd end up with 90/100 results which i deserve. If i went to a selective school i'd get a lower mark, but would get 90/100 anyway. This is because your internal marks are moderated based on the strength of your cohort - this is heavily reliant on your internal ranks.

Of course there are other factors like learning environment etc etc that would affect results but i'm ignoring those in the example above.

Not bothered typing anything more detailed - all you complainers should learn how the system works before you complain/propose your own system.
+1
move on.
 

kfnmpah

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Who thinks the HSC is unfair?
People who don't get what they want

I'll admit however, basing uni entry purely on a mark in a test can be a big bitch when a lot of the time interpersonal skills should also be assessed or if a student goes to a poorly ranked school or something.

That being said, MAN UP and study harder becuse it's not going to change anytime soon.
 

jeshxcore

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hell yeah.
1 year of work and studying that determines the future of MOST students?
rather than exams all the time.. they should also test us on skills required for the career path we wish to pursue.
exams are not everything, and not everyone who does well in school will do well in uni or in the workforce.

also, i must add that circumstances beyond your control will greatly influence your mark. e.g. someone passing away.
those 5 bonus points do not compensate enough.

oh, and don't forget the ranking of your school.. if your cohort does badly, that effects your mark too! hsc should be all your own work, not influenced by your year group...
 
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tommykins

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hell yeah.
1 year of work and studying that determines the future of MOST students?
rather than exams all the time.. they should also test us on skills required for the career path we wish to pursue.

exams are not everything, and not everyone who does well in school will do well in uni or in the workforce.
Only an idiot and naive child would think the HSC determines anything of the future.
also, i must add that circumstances beyond your control will greatly influence your mark. e.g. someone passing away.
those 5 bonus points do not compensate enough.
What is enough ? 10 points ? 15 points? How do you put a precise value for every goddamn situation? Automatic entry?

OH wait, there isn't really any other way hey, shhh.
oh, and don't forget the ranking of your school.. if your cohort does badly, that effects your mark too! hsc should be all your own work, not influenced by your year group...
Ranking of your school does not in any direct way effect your ATAR or HSC marks.
 

jeshxcore

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you have no idea what its like when your best friend commits suicide during the lead up to your exams
it effects your marks greatly.

also, i know there are a million pathways into uni but its a fat trek to get there e.g. transferring or doing tafe.. or even repeating year 12?

oh and, i'm sure your school rank would have some sort of influence on your mark... whats the point in everyone changing schools for senior years?
 
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tommykins

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you have no idea what its like when your best friend commits suicide during the lead up to your exams
it effects your marks greatly.

also, i know there are a million pathways into uni but its a fat trek to get there e.g. transferring or doing tafe.. or even repeating year 12?

oh and, i'm sure your school rank would have some sort of influence on your mark... whats the point in everyone changing schools for senior years?
Never did I say I knew what it was like, nor did I say it wouldnt effect your mark, but you are whinging about 5 marks isnt enough without even suggesting what method can quantify the compensation required for such a scenario.

yeah and if we gave every kid 5 years to get into uni we would have so many peole graduating when theyre 25 and gg workforce.

you're sure from anecdotal evidence, not core evidence. people change because they want to move to a better environment, which MAY INDIRECTLY effect your marks.
 

annabackwards

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you have no idea what its like when your best friend commits suicide during the lead up to your exams
it effects your marks greatly.

also, i know there are a million pathways into uni but its a fat trek to get there e.g. transferring or doing tafe.. or even repeating year 12?

oh and, i'm sure your school rank would have some sort of influence on your mark... whats the point in everyone changing schools for senior years?
Unis are now offering interviews and other bonus points like those offered in the HSC plus program to get kids into uni who may not be academic all rounders etc etc

People change schools because they believe they'd get an advantage from doing so, that does not mean it is true. Read my above post.
 

jeshxcore

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Unis are now offering interviews and other bonus points like those offered in the HSC plus program to get kids into uni who may not be academic all rounders etc etc

People change schools because they believe they'd get an advantage from doing so, that does not mean it is true. Read my above post.
ahh i've heard of hsc plus, what is it?
and yeah i changed because i needed a fresh start to a better-focusing environment as well.
so i guess you guys are right. but i still think hsc is unfair.
 

tommykins

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lol, 'you are right but im so stubborn ill still think hsc is unfair'
 

jeshxcore

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yeah, because it shouldn't be relied on exams and
assesments etc.
i know people who can study just before an exam and pull out an 80 so i think in this way its unfair.
while i will still for 2-3 weeks an pull an 80.
maybe my study methods suck -.-

and a lot of people in my grade do last minute assignments the night before, pull out a really good mark. my assignments are good, but my study methods suck?
 

bubbrubb

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yeah, because it shouldn't be relied on exams and
assesments etc.
i know people who can study just before an exam and pull out an 80 so i think in this way its unfair.
while i will still for 2-3 weeks an pull an 80.
maybe my study methods suck -.-

and a lot of people in my grade do last minute assignments the night before, pull out a really good mark. my assignments are good, but my study methods suck?
right... cuz the hsc is a measure of one's effort and nothing else... zzz

your argument is like complaining that the olympics is unfair because some runners are born faster than their peers.

if they can study one night and beat you if you study 3 weeks... what does that mean... it means they are more efficient than you (especially if they can pull out an assignment as good as yours within a night) because their study methods are better or they are simply smarter than you or most likely both. either way, if they beat you its not unfair at all. hsc is about work ethic PLUS brains.
 

annabackwards

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With all respect did you even read what I said? I never said you couldn't achieve well I said you would be likely to achieve higher at a better school, I thought I clearly implied it was about the learning environment, sorry if that wasn't clear enough.

I never disagreed with anything you just mentioned; I go to an independent school currently ranked 138 and we had 3 people in the 99 range, obviously you can achieve well anywhere if you are determined enough, my point is that if you were at a school with an excellent learning environment with competition (note this is also where strength of the cohort comes directly into play) that worked to push you you would almost definitely end up with a higher ATAR then if you hadn't. Seeing as you misread what I said, statement not incorrect.
Read below.

She is right for the most part, the ranking stuff is a completely valid point, but differences in schools amount to a lot more then just the cohort.
But now you're talking about the environment.

Lots of kids go to more competitive schools and don't give a stuff anyway/get crappy marks because they don't try and vice versa. You can't blame that on the environment - if you are hard working you'll end up with the results you deserve in the end.

So basically it has nothing to do with the school you go to - if you have a good work ethic you'll do well no matter which school you go to.

yeah, because it shouldn't be relied on exams and
assesments etc.
i know people who can study just before an exam and pull out an 80 so i think in this way its unfair.
while i will still for 2-3 weeks an pull an 80.
maybe my study methods suck -.-

and a lot of people in my grade do last minute assignments the night before, pull out a really good mark. my assignments are good, but my study methods suck?
How about studying for 4hrs and pulling off a 90+ in an HSC exam ;)
My reply would be similar to bubbrubb's reply :)
 
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tommykins

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She is right for the most part, the ranking stuff is a completely valid point, but differences in schools amount to a lot more then just the cohort.
No she isn't, I just debunked pretty much every point she has.

As said MANY MANY times before, the only effect of different schools is the ENVIRONMENT given and NOTHING to do with how they 'scale you up' etc. etc.

yeah, because it shouldn't be relied on exams and
assesments etc.
What should it be relied on?
i know people who can study just before an exam and pull out an 80 so i think in this way its unfair.
while i will still for 2-3 weeks an pull an 80.
maybe my study methods suck -.-
Who's fault is that? That's why they give 50/50 for internal/external to avoid everyone cramming at the last minute.
and a lot of people in my grade do last minute assignments the night before, pull out a really good mark. my assignments are good, but my study methods suck?
Once again, who's fault? The system or yours?
 

philphie

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look the flaws of the system is the fact that it attempts to be fair for everyone, but obviously not everyone is the same, we all work differently, come from different situations, and our intelligence is validated in different ways, so people will always fall through the system, and it's just bad luck. so the only simple way i can see of resolving this is if you don't meet the cut off requirements than we just implement a policy in every tertiary education institute to have ATAR + interview for those people. at least in this way the institution may at least see how your mind works on a more personal level whilst still maintaining a certain level of quality in intakes if still after the interview the institution does not change their mind on no admittance.
 

tommykins

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look the flaws of the system is the fact that it attempts to be fair for everyone, but obviously not everyone is the same, we all work differently, come from different situations, and our intelligence is validated in different ways, so people will always fall through the system, and it's just bad luck. so the only simple way i can see of resolving this is if you don't meet the cut off requirements than we just implement a policy in every tertiary education institute to have ATAR + interview for those people. at least in this way the institution may at least see how your mind works on a more personal level whilst still maintaining a certain level of quality in intakes if still after the interview the institution does not change their mind on no admittance.
Yeah and if we have interviews and what not imagine the amount of time and money the universities would have to use to interview every single student that wanted the course and didn't make the cut off.
 

philphie

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Yeah and if we have interviews and what not imagine the amount of time and money the universities would have to use to interview every single student that wanted the course and didn't make the cut off.
well i can say Notre Dame works on this system and it works for them and obviosuly to obtain an interview you would still need an appropriate ATAR perhaps a maximum of 10 points within the original cutoff.

but again the flaw in this is if it comes to a situation where you have a student with a lower atar who had a great interview compared to a student with a higher atar with a poor interview....
 
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well i can say Notre Dame works on this system and it works for them and obviosuly to obtain an interview you would still need an appropriate ATAR perhaps a maximum of 10 points within the original cutoff.

but again the flaw in this is if it comes to a situation where you have a student with a lower atar who had a great interview compared to a student with a higher atar with a poor interview....
no i know someone that got accepted into notre dame before we even had our trials.
 

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