jennieTalia
Member
That's fine-may-cat- said:
I'm not trying to get under anyones skin
I'm just saying, before you take, be aware.
At least if you know the implications it is fair enough to be like 'I want to do this anyway'.
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your opinions on experimenting with drugs.. while on schoolies? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter iamemanuel
- Start date
I'm not trying to get under anyones skin
I'm just saying, before you take, be aware.
At least if you know the implications it is fair enough to be like 'I want to do this anyway'.
jennieTalia
Member
Miles Edgeworth said:
Ahahahaha I like
Let's not turn the board into a fight though. I just want a discussion
Your life is meaningless and you are an unimportant person.
You should use all sorts of drugs, frequently and in large amount if that is what will create personal meaning and identity, a satisfying existence for yourself.
You should use all sorts of drugs, frequently and in large amount if that is what will create personal meaning and identity, a satisfying existence for yourself.
jennieTalia
Member
*goofy smile*Graney said:
If it gives you satisfaction then so be it
If it doesn't and you want something different... like me, then so be it as well
Exactly, we should have a complete freedom of choice and ability to create our own meaning. You shouldn't allow yourself to be cooerced by anyone, friend or government, make a personal informed choice on when, where and how you use drugs and if the risk is appropriate for yourself.
jennieTalia
Member
I agree. But a lot of people aren't informed and think they are. Hence the debate. It is a tricky topic, how are you supposed to be informed when... essentally even the "authorities" on the subject are still highly in debate. Gah catch 22Graney said:
on topic, i will definatly be using a few drugs at schoolies, however it wont exactly be considered as experimenting, as my boundries and limits are pretty much set due to prior use. My main concern is over stepping them... meh, have fun and enjoy it peoples, with or without drugs
Dis Amrahs
Member
Hi, All I am saying is that so much criticism of drugs (in this case MJ) is based on a long standing moral precedent.
The Main Claims against MJ are
1. MJ is a 'gateway' drug
There is no scientific evidence for the theory that marijuana is a "gateway" drug. The cannabis-using cultures in Asia, the Middle East, Africa and Latin America show no propensity for other drugs. The gateway theory took hold in the sixties, when marijuana became the leading new recreational drug. It was refuted by events in the eighties, when cocaine abuse exploded at the same time marijuana use declined. As we have seen, there is evidence that cannabis may substitute for alcohol and other "hard" drugs. A recent survey by Dr. Patricia Morgan of the University of California at Berekeley found that a significant number of pot smokers and dealers switched to methamphetamine "ice" when Hawaii's marijuana eradication program created a shortage of pot. Dr. Morgan noted a similar phenomenon in California, where cocaine use soared in the wake of the CAMP helicopter eradication campaign.The one way in which marijuana does lead to other drugs is through its illegality: persons who deal in marijuana are likely to deal in other illicit drugs as well.
I'll go Both sides of the argument here;
MJ is Harmless?
Any discussion of marijuana should begin with the fact that there have been numerous official reports and studies, every one of which has concluded that marijuana poses no great risk to society and should not be criminalized. These include:
the National Academy of Sciences Analysis of Marijuana Policy (1982);
the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse (the Shafer Report) (1973);
the Canadian Government's Commission of Inquiry (Le Dain Report) (1970);
the British Advisory Committee on Drug Dependency (Wooton Report) (1968);
the La Guardia Report (1944);
the Panama Canal Zone Military Investigations (1916-29);
and Britain's monumental Indian Hemp Drugs Commission (1893-4).
It is sometimes claimed that there is ``new evidence'' showing marijuana is more harmful than was thought in the sixties. In fact, the most recent studies have tended to confirm marijuana's safety, refuting claims that it causes birth defects, brain damag e, reduced testosterone, or increased drug abuse problems.
The current consensus is well stated in the 20th annual report of the California Research Advisory Panel (1990), which recommended that personal use and cultivation of marijuana be legalized: "An objective consideration of marijuana shows that it is respo nsible for less damage to society and the individual than are alcohol and cigarettes."
References: The National Academy of Sciences report, Marijuana and Health (National Academy Press, 1982), remains the most useful overview of the health effects of marijuana, its major conclusions remaining largely unaffected by the last 10 years of research. Lovinger and Jones, The Marihuana Question (Dod d, Mead & Co., NY 1985), is the most exhaustive and fair-handed summary of the evidence against marijuana. Good, positive perspectives may be found in Lester Grinspoon's Marihuana, the Forbidden Medicine (Yale Press, 1993) and Marihuana Reconsidere d (Harvard U. Press 1971), which debunks many of the older anti-pot myths. See also Leo Hollister, Health Aspects of Cannabis, Pharmacological Reviews 38:1-20 (1986).
On the Other Hand; MJ is Harmfull?
Just as most experts agree that occasional or moderate use of marijuana is innocuous, they also agree that excessive use can be harmful. Research shows that the two major risks of excessive marijuana use are:
respiratory disease due to smoking and
accidental injuries due to impairment.
Marijuana and Smoking:A recent survey by the Kaiser Permanente Center found that daily marijuana-only smokers have a 19% higher rate of respiratory complaints than non-smokers. These findings were not unexpected, since it has long been known that, aside from its psychoactive ingredients, marijuana smoke contains virtually the same toxic gases and carcinogenic tars as tobacco. Human studies have found that pot smokers suffer similar kinds of respiratory damage as tobacco smokers, putting them at greater risk of bronchitis, sore throat, respiratory inflammation and infections.
Although there has not been enough epidemiological work to settle the matter definitively, it is widely suspected that marijuana smoking causes cancer. Studies have found apparently pre-cancerous cell changes in pot smokers. Some cancer specialists have reported a higher-than-expected incidence of throat, neck and tongue cancer in younger, marijuana-only smokers. A couple of cases have been fatal. While it has not been conclusively proven that marijuana smoking causes lung cancer, the evidence is highly suggestive. According to Dr. Donald Tashkin of UCLA, the leading expert on marijuana smoking:"Although more information is certainly needed, sufficient data have already been accumulated concerning the health effects of marijuana to warrant counseling by physicians against the smoking of marijuana as an important hazard to health." Fortunately, the hazards of marijuana smoking can be reduced by various strategies:
use of higher-potency cannabis, which can be smoked in smaller quantities,
use of waterpipes and other smoke reduction technologies, and
ingesting pot orally instead of smoking it.
Note: Kaiser's emphasis on Daily MJ smokers as opposed to NON SMOKERS. Its a matter of abuse ladies and gents.
There is no evidence that the prohibition of marijuana reduces the net social risk of accidents. On the contrary, recent studies suggest that marijuana may actually be beneficial in that it substitutes for alcohol and other, more dangerous drugs. Research by Karyn Model found that states with marijuana decrim had lower overall drug abuse rates than others; another study by Frank Chaloupka found decrim states have lower accident rates too. In Alaska, accident rates held constant or declined following the legalization of personal use of marijuana. In Holland, authorities believe that cannabis has contributed to an overall decline in opiate abuse. Recent government statistics showed that the highest rates of cocaine abuse in the West were in Nevada and Arizona, the states with the toughest marijuana laws
In terms of MJ related Deaths, The Kaiser study also found that daily pot users have a 30% higher risk of injuries, presumably from accidents. These figures are significant, though not as high as comparable risks for heavy drinkers or tobacco addicts. That pot can cause accidents is scarcely surprising, since marijuana has been shown to degrade short-term memory, concentration, judgment, and coordination at complex tasks including driving. There have been numerous reports of pot-related accidents --- some of them fatal, belying the attractive myth that no one has ever died from marijuana. One survey of 1023 emergency room trauma patients in Baltimore found that fully 34.7% were under the influence of marijuana, more even than alcohol (33.5%); half of these (16.5%) used both pot and alcohol in combination. This is perhaps the most troublesome research ever reported about marijuana; as we shall see, other accident studies have generally found pot to be less dangerous than alcohol. Nonetheless, it is important to be informed on all sides of the issue. Pot smokers should be aware that accidents are the number one hazard of moderate pot use. This is no different to a night out on the town just drinking. When i smoke i make sure im in a condusive environment with friends and good music, i dont drink much before i smoke and while im high i usually dont drink either. Its more the way people abuse the drug rather than the drug thats more dangerous.
There are pros and cons on both sides of the field but no different to alcohol or tobacco. As a drug yes its open to abuse but theres no evidence of chemical addiction in infrequent users.
Too many people place the onus of stupidity on the drug where really its usually the poor judgement of individuals taking it that lands them in trouble, just like with alcohol though because its a drug that usually subdues people theres next to no chance of aggression or public liability.
The Main Claims against MJ are
1. MJ is a 'gateway' drug
There is no scientific evidence for the theory that marijuana is a "gateway" drug. The cannabis-using cultures in Asia, the Middle East, Africa and Latin America show no propensity for other drugs. The gateway theory took hold in the sixties, when marijuana became the leading new recreational drug. It was refuted by events in the eighties, when cocaine abuse exploded at the same time marijuana use declined. As we have seen, there is evidence that cannabis may substitute for alcohol and other "hard" drugs. A recent survey by Dr. Patricia Morgan of the University of California at Berekeley found that a significant number of pot smokers and dealers switched to methamphetamine "ice" when Hawaii's marijuana eradication program created a shortage of pot. Dr. Morgan noted a similar phenomenon in California, where cocaine use soared in the wake of the CAMP helicopter eradication campaign.The one way in which marijuana does lead to other drugs is through its illegality: persons who deal in marijuana are likely to deal in other illicit drugs as well.
I'll go Both sides of the argument here;
MJ is Harmless?
Any discussion of marijuana should begin with the fact that there have been numerous official reports and studies, every one of which has concluded that marijuana poses no great risk to society and should not be criminalized. These include:
the National Academy of Sciences Analysis of Marijuana Policy (1982);
the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse (the Shafer Report) (1973);
the Canadian Government's Commission of Inquiry (Le Dain Report) (1970);
the British Advisory Committee on Drug Dependency (Wooton Report) (1968);
the La Guardia Report (1944);
the Panama Canal Zone Military Investigations (1916-29);
and Britain's monumental Indian Hemp Drugs Commission (1893-4).
It is sometimes claimed that there is ``new evidence'' showing marijuana is more harmful than was thought in the sixties. In fact, the most recent studies have tended to confirm marijuana's safety, refuting claims that it causes birth defects, brain damag e, reduced testosterone, or increased drug abuse problems.
The current consensus is well stated in the 20th annual report of the California Research Advisory Panel (1990), which recommended that personal use and cultivation of marijuana be legalized: "An objective consideration of marijuana shows that it is respo nsible for less damage to society and the individual than are alcohol and cigarettes."
References: The National Academy of Sciences report, Marijuana and Health (National Academy Press, 1982), remains the most useful overview of the health effects of marijuana, its major conclusions remaining largely unaffected by the last 10 years of research. Lovinger and Jones, The Marihuana Question (Dod d, Mead & Co., NY 1985), is the most exhaustive and fair-handed summary of the evidence against marijuana. Good, positive perspectives may be found in Lester Grinspoon's Marihuana, the Forbidden Medicine (Yale Press, 1993) and Marihuana Reconsidere d (Harvard U. Press 1971), which debunks many of the older anti-pot myths. See also Leo Hollister, Health Aspects of Cannabis, Pharmacological Reviews 38:1-20 (1986).
On the Other Hand; MJ is Harmfull?
Just as most experts agree that occasional or moderate use of marijuana is innocuous, they also agree that excessive use can be harmful. Research shows that the two major risks of excessive marijuana use are:
respiratory disease due to smoking and
accidental injuries due to impairment.
Marijuana and Smoking:A recent survey by the Kaiser Permanente Center found that daily marijuana-only smokers have a 19% higher rate of respiratory complaints than non-smokers. These findings were not unexpected, since it has long been known that, aside from its psychoactive ingredients, marijuana smoke contains virtually the same toxic gases and carcinogenic tars as tobacco. Human studies have found that pot smokers suffer similar kinds of respiratory damage as tobacco smokers, putting them at greater risk of bronchitis, sore throat, respiratory inflammation and infections.
Although there has not been enough epidemiological work to settle the matter definitively, it is widely suspected that marijuana smoking causes cancer. Studies have found apparently pre-cancerous cell changes in pot smokers. Some cancer specialists have reported a higher-than-expected incidence of throat, neck and tongue cancer in younger, marijuana-only smokers. A couple of cases have been fatal. While it has not been conclusively proven that marijuana smoking causes lung cancer, the evidence is highly suggestive. According to Dr. Donald Tashkin of UCLA, the leading expert on marijuana smoking:"Although more information is certainly needed, sufficient data have already been accumulated concerning the health effects of marijuana to warrant counseling by physicians against the smoking of marijuana as an important hazard to health." Fortunately, the hazards of marijuana smoking can be reduced by various strategies:
use of higher-potency cannabis, which can be smoked in smaller quantities,
use of waterpipes and other smoke reduction technologies, and
ingesting pot orally instead of smoking it.
Note: Kaiser's emphasis on Daily MJ smokers as opposed to NON SMOKERS. Its a matter of abuse ladies and gents.
There is no evidence that the prohibition of marijuana reduces the net social risk of accidents. On the contrary, recent studies suggest that marijuana may actually be beneficial in that it substitutes for alcohol and other, more dangerous drugs. Research by Karyn Model found that states with marijuana decrim had lower overall drug abuse rates than others; another study by Frank Chaloupka found decrim states have lower accident rates too. In Alaska, accident rates held constant or declined following the legalization of personal use of marijuana. In Holland, authorities believe that cannabis has contributed to an overall decline in opiate abuse. Recent government statistics showed that the highest rates of cocaine abuse in the West were in Nevada and Arizona, the states with the toughest marijuana laws
In terms of MJ related Deaths, The Kaiser study also found that daily pot users have a 30% higher risk of injuries, presumably from accidents. These figures are significant, though not as high as comparable risks for heavy drinkers or tobacco addicts. That pot can cause accidents is scarcely surprising, since marijuana has been shown to degrade short-term memory, concentration, judgment, and coordination at complex tasks including driving. There have been numerous reports of pot-related accidents --- some of them fatal, belying the attractive myth that no one has ever died from marijuana. One survey of 1023 emergency room trauma patients in Baltimore found that fully 34.7% were under the influence of marijuana, more even than alcohol (33.5%); half of these (16.5%) used both pot and alcohol in combination. This is perhaps the most troublesome research ever reported about marijuana; as we shall see, other accident studies have generally found pot to be less dangerous than alcohol. Nonetheless, it is important to be informed on all sides of the issue. Pot smokers should be aware that accidents are the number one hazard of moderate pot use. This is no different to a night out on the town just drinking. When i smoke i make sure im in a condusive environment with friends and good music, i dont drink much before i smoke and while im high i usually dont drink either. Its more the way people abuse the drug rather than the drug thats more dangerous.
There are pros and cons on both sides of the field but no different to alcohol or tobacco. As a drug yes its open to abuse but theres no evidence of chemical addiction in infrequent users.
Too many people place the onus of stupidity on the drug where really its usually the poor judgement of individuals taking it that lands them in trouble, just like with alcohol though because its a drug that usually subdues people theres next to no chance of aggression or public liability.
MadamGuilia
Member
Who really has absolute freedom of choice when we are so susceptible to our environments, out of human nature? It's inevitable. Who isn't cooerced by anyone? We inform our opinions from our environments, correct? There are stronger ones who stick by their beliefs - but they were taught through their surroundings to do such.. It's interesting to say the least.Graney said:
MadamGuilia
Member
Quite! 'Tis not to be overthunk..El Snagle said:
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pauldrummer3
New Member
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as many people have already said, the key to having a good time in experimenting with drugs is having people around that have done them before,
the last thing u want is to be buzzing in the corner of a pub not knowing wat to do with yourself jumping at shadows on the wall
lol
the last thing u want is to be buzzing in the corner of a pub not knowing wat to do with yourself jumping at shadows on the wall
lol
Lazy Student
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Cases of weed actually causing schizophrenia are extremely rare, and only happens with people who have a family history of the condition and are genetically susceptable to it. In short, of you're uncle's schizo, don't do weed.jennieTalia said:
And as for weed being "psychotic" - no shit, it's a drug. If it wasn't psychoactive people wouldn't smoke it. Don't forget alcohol is as well, plenty of people drink themselves to death. You can't OD on weed.
@ whoever called me a troll - I stand by whatever comments I've made, I'm not hunting for a reaction.
EDIT: Jennie, your justification for alcohol interests me. Claims like we all know the risks, and "that's just me". How is marijuana any different? The effects are far from unknown, people of have been smoking the stuff for thousands of years. You get mellowed out, appatite increases, you relax, etc. Being stoned is far less dangerous than being drunk. Stoned people don't pick fights because they're too lazy to get up and annoy someone! They'd rather look at the clouds and giggle.
Also, you mentioned having a small amount of alcohol, citing 1 standard drink. This is schoolies. I would bet a million dollars that anybody drinking at schoolies is going to be having a hell of a lot more than 1 standard drinks (or 10) each night, since to get drunk you need large (and damaging) amounts of alcohol in your system. On the other hand, I could smoke a joint and that would be fine. Maybe take a hit from the bong too. Done. Even if I decided to go crazy and smoke excessive amounts of weed, it wouldn't matter since you can't become comatose or dead from weed. Marijuana has got to be the closest thing to a harmless drug there is.
For the record, I'm not trying to put down alcohol and/or its users. I love my booze. But I'm sick of all these grossly uninformed people saying "Weed will make you go crazy for ever, but grog is totally fine". Alcohol is a hell of a lot worse than weed, but as it is socially acceptable nobody cares.
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jennieTalia
Member
Ahahaha well my Aunties schizophrenic, so thats my major justification for avoiding it myself.Lazy Student said:
I'm not going to schoolies myself.
Getting drunk doesn't change your personality, it is an exaggeration of it, in my case. I can become louder than usual, but I'm not ever violent.
It depends on the person. I have said that a lot of times already?
As for me stating that it is psychotic... read other peoples replies, they state that it is a non-psychotic drug. I was merely counteracting it rather than trying to state the obvious.
I never said alco was completely fine seriously, and I never pushed that (read all my other comments)
But interesting points, I hadn't really thought of it in terms of the overdosing.
jennieTalia
Member
Many of them are.Miles Edgeworth said:
Science is always at odds with each other. Studies are often too complex to reveal certainty. Theories are just that, theories. So essentially everything is, and can be, under debate.
maybe "highly" is the word of question. In my case, any debate is interesting. Maybe it isn't at the top of the 'debating pile', and you possibly wouldn't get given it as a topic for the school debating team. But any argument is good enough to cause questions in my own mind.
EDIT: What about other drugs?? Anyone thinking of using heroin.....
this could be interesting
iamemanuel
SUPER CALLA FRIGGIN AWSUM
well i like your advice! schoolies in 2 days! woot
chamelia
Member
Wooooooo- HOOoooooooooo!Scissors said:
That is all.
settle*precious
Banned
IMO, if you take anything harder then weed you're stupid enough to deserve the consequences. Even weed can have bad effects - I know a guy who is now in an asylum cause he smoked weed and it triggered hardcore schizophrenia.