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velox

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What are your thoughts on the new way that the BIG4 are recruiting? They now take any degree as long as you do the grad dip CA via distance while you work. (it maybe have just been ey or kpmg, i forget).

Sounds like they need less boring people, or less asians?
 

turtleface

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I dunno about the asian thing, maybe its a NSW thing, in the Big 4 Melbourne Office I was at, out of more than 300 audit staff, there were about 15 asians total. Thats what, less than 5%?

As for boring, I'm a very boring person and like to be around people who are boring and don't rock the boat too much. Unfortunately one of the bad things for me about working at Big 4 is its all a bit too party-ish. Its like being at uni again since like 80% are in their 20's and its all a bit too much of a social atmosphere for me.

And I think you mean the GradDip/Cert in CA Foundations. This is a distance learning course. The GradDip.CA is the actual CA Program where you have to attend discussion (focus) groups etc.

I think its because of teh evolving nature of accounting where better thinkers are required, not just skilled technicians. The accounting profession realises that some of its most creative thinkers and innovators are from non traditional backgrounds and haven't been (brainwashed) taught into accepting the status quo on how contemporary accounting practice is conducted.

An example is Robert Kaplan, a real innovator in Management Accounting, and he originally was a trained Engineer.

The firms don't want to admit it, but they don't want people who clients can't relate to. Which unfortunately means...you know who. So it seems that they'd rather take "suitable" grads from other areas, force them to do a CA Conversion course, and then get them to do their Chartered Accounting qualifications (for accounting lines I mean).

I think it might not necessarily be a bad thing because by increasing the scoping range there will invariably be much higher calibre of people in the profession.

I think it doesn't seem obvious at first but the actual number of "suitable" accounting grads seems to be decreasing. When you factor out the non resident studets, my uni (melb) graduates less than 200 (I estimate) or so accounting students every year.
 
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Newbie

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i dont think the numbers will swing to non-commerce degree holders anytime soon but theres nothing wrong with it.

i think its quite hard for non-commerce students to do well in the inteview process. ie: talking about accounting developments, m&a presentations, etc. so those that do make it must be pretty dedicated to the field anyway

and yes asians dominate big4 sydney, especially audit. tax is about 50/50. mind you, dominate in numbers. Most are senior consultant or below. lolol asianglassceiling lolol


and unsw's new policy on taking in people 10 uai points below cut off doesnt help.
 
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velox

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yeh i heard from a tax lawyer that most asians who do com/law go into tax as the top tiers are bigots, and no-one likes tax, so they get dumped there.
 

Newbie

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its true

thats why heaps of people want to go back to hong kong to work now
 

turtleface

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Tax is boring and shit imo. But it pays heaps compared to like audit (at grad level). Hell some big 4 tax divisions pay more (55K etc) than big 6 law firms first year out
 

Newbie

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57k + 2k welcome for tax

but i thought law firms pay 65?
 

Meads

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Tax is awesome.

The law changes everyday.

Beats ticking and crossing financial statements...
 

Newbie

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theres only a certain amount of excitement you can have for doing a tax return though, with excitment being the wait for someone to finally crack it and stab a pencil through their eye
.........
 

turtleface

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yeah 65K is a bit high for law firms, from my experience they are more like 30K-55K range
 
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I wasn't aware of the way they hire new graduates, could you explain it too me, what are they looking for?
 

Frigid

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turtleface said:
yeah 65K is a bit high for law firms, from my experience they are more like 30K-55K range
i think newbie was referring to top tier.

newbie: mind you, HK is hard to get. unless you've got gifted chinese skills. in which case a D-average would do.

i guess this new way of recruitment is similar to the non-law degree recruitment for law firms - make you do a graduate cert. in something, then you can work in that industry. hehe, if only they had grad. cert. in med (GMC!) :)
 

seremify007

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To TC, I don't see why it's such a bad thing... maybe 1 or 2 people in each intake (from what I've seen) are from a non-Accounting background but provide knowledge/skills in particular areas which make them attractive candidates. Anyone who's worked in big4 (at least in audit) will know that they teach you everything you need to know about auditing on the spot, but they can't teach you things about mining or engineering. There's always benefits to be found from laterally recruiting from non-accounting backgrounds and I don't see how it degrades or detracts from Big4 in any way.
 

Minai

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seremify007 said:
To TC, I don't see why it's such a bad thing... maybe 1 or 2 people in each intake (from what I've seen) are from a non-Accounting background but provide knowledge/skills in particular areas which make them attractive candidates. Anyone who's worked in big4 (at least in audit) will know that they teach you everything you need to know about auditing on the spot, but they can't teach you things about mining or engineering. There's always benefits to be found from laterally recruiting from non-accounting backgrounds and I don't see how it degrades or detracts from Big4 in any way.
I agree with that.
The only drawback is that recruiting from such a wide base is that you pick up more people that are not generally interested in accounting/financial services matters, and would grow bored quite quickly, especially at "Accountant" level. Essentially, I don't think it necessarily helps the rentention rate...but I don't think big4 really care, cause they know accountant level staff can easily be replaced.
 

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