Australian Politics (6 Viewers)

[moll.]

Always good advice, but it won't solve the actual problem of both Labour and Liberal being right-wing parties now (albeit centre-right for Labour).

But the whole left/right political spectrum is only a relative measure to begin with, so Labor and Liberal are only right-wing parties in comparison to previous left-wing parties. And there is good reason for their comparative glide to the right anyway.
Economically, traditional left-wing policies have been discredited as bringers of economic growth and higher standards of living by a long process of trial and error. A quick glance at economic history can show any layman that. Yes, the current economic crisis can in part be credited to exceptionally right-wing policies in certain countries. But this hasn't yet discredited right-wing economics, only shown that they need to be applied in moderation, which again gives credence to centre-right policies.
However, when talking about social policies, I think that the opposite is true and they are actually moving left, not right. The left-wing policies of justice and equality are widely recognised by the greater community in today's society, and I believe both parties acknowledge this and the Liberals are slowly but surely sliding to the left when it comes to social issues.

 

[georgefren]

Right swinging economic policy, left swinging social policy should be the way to go.

 

[Trefoil]

But the whole left/right political spectrum is only a relative measure to begin with, so Labor and Liberal are only right-wing parties in comparison to previous left-wing parties. And there is good reason for their comparative glide to the right anyway.
Economically, traditional left-wing policies have been discredited as bringers of economic growth and higher standards of living by a long process of trial and error. A quick glance at economic history can show any layman that. Yes, the current economic crisis can in part be credited to exceptionally right-wing policies in certain countries. But this hasn't yet discredited right-wing economics, only shown that they need to be applied in moderation, which again gives credence to centre-right policies.
However, when talking about social policies, I think that the opposite is true and they are actually moving left, not right. The left-wing policies of justice and equality are widely recognised by the greater community in today's society, and I believe both parties acknowledge this and the Liberals are slowly but surely sliding to the left when it comes to social issues.

lol. Could you be any more vague and say any less?

 

[moll.]

lol. Could you be any more vague and say any less?

In essence, all i said was economic policies are moving right whilst social policies are moving left, so your statement and the apparent amount of mourning you have for this situation is wrong. Or as wrong as an opinion can be.

 

[Trefoil]

In essence, all i said was economic policies are moving right whilst social policies are moving left, so your statement and the apparent amount of mourning you have for this situation is wrong. Or as wrong as an opinion can be.

Your post showed patchy understanding of Australia's economic history. Next you'll be telling me Hawke and Keating were secretly right-wing, because they were some of the best economic managers this country had.

It's perfectly reasonable to lament the right-ward shift, not only because it's been both social and economic, but because it's not appropriate for both main political parties to be economically right-wing without a balancing force - it significantly skews the political and social discourse.

 

[Gerald10]

But the whole left/right political spectrum is only a relative measure to begin with, so Labor and Liberal are only right-wing parties in comparison to previous left-wing parties. And there is good reason for their comparative glide to the right anyway.
Economically, traditional left-wing policies have been discredited as bringers of economic growth and higher standards of living by a long process of trial and error. A quick glance at economic history can show any layman that. Yes, the current economic crisis can in part be credited to exceptionally right-wing policies in certain countries. But this hasn't yet discredited right-wing economics, only shown that they need to be applied in moderation, which again gives credence to centre-right policies.
However, when talking about social policies, I think that the opposite is true and they are actually moving left, not right. The left-wing policies of justice and equality are widely recognised by the greater community in today's society, and I believe both parties acknowledge this and the Liberals are slowly but surely sliding to the left when it comes to social issues.

I believe its a new school of thought which emerged under Clinton and Blair - 'the third way'. Political scientists among us may be able to give more detail.

 

[Trefoil]

I believe its a new school of thought which emerged under Clinton and Blair - 'the third way'. Political scientists among us may be able to give more detail.

It actually emerged under Bob Hawke.

 

[Trefoil]

Lol Third way is total bullshit:

As Francis Wheen put it:

"The third way is somewhere between the second coming and the fourth dimension"

Is it bullshit because it's not right-wing economic extremism?

 

[Trefoil]

It's so baseless. It's a compromise, but not in the way that people have outlined it. It's not really that progressive or revolutionary, either.

So in other words: "Yes, it's bullshit because it's neither left nor right"?

Well then give me 'bullshit' any day. If a leader can't adapt to fit the circumstances and instead bases all his decisions on often out of touch ideology, then he shouldn't be running the country.

The Third Way rejects both socialism and laissez-faire approaches to economic governance, but chiefly stresses technological development, education, and competitive mechanisms to pursue economic progress and governmental objectives. One of its central aims is to protect the modern welfare state through reforms that maintain its economic integrity.

Oh, yeah, that sounds horrible. However could you have reduced trade tarrifs, floated the dollar, removed wage-fixing, or privatised Qantas and the Commonwealth Bank, Mr Hawke?

God, if the fucking commies aren't complaining about being 'betrayed', the right-wing mingers are chastising us for not abolishing the welfare system and leaving the poor to rot instead.

 

[Gerald10]

Isn't it really just moderate capitalism?

 

[Trefoil]

Isn't it really just moderate capitalism?

Isn't it really just moderate socialism?

Note: Hawke did more than just the things I listed. Those things alone may certainly seem fairly right-ward actions (although I don't think so; it's just removing government bloat where appropriate, not because some misplaced ideology dictates it as an end in and of itself).

 

[Gerald10]

Isn't it really just moderate socialism?

Note: Hawke did more than just the things I listed. Those things alone may certainly seem fairly right-ward actions (although I don't think so; it's just removing government bloat where appropriate, not because some misplaced ideology dictates it as an end in and of itself).

I feel its using the capitalist system to create the best possible social outcome - so no its not really socialism I don't think. Though perhaps its all relative...

 

[Lentern]

Anyone think Nick Minchin might be looking at a switch to the lower house bid for leadership like Bronwyn Bishop? Minchin is about as conservative a politician as they come and as we speak is probably trying to help his faction win back the leadership but all the right wing prominent libs seem to be getting knocked off the libs fairly quickly.

Dr Nelson is tainted by his fun ride, Ms Bishop fell over herself, Lord Downer walked and Abbott is Abbott.

Meanwhile Turnbull is proving competent, Hockey has had a dream ride, Pyne is growing in stature and seems likely to be the parties next deputy leader for sure, they're pretty much all the people with suitable public profiles to lead a major party in the house, Minchin I think would have no trouble getting the staunch right dry liberals to rally behind him, if he could pick off a few of their centre right libs he'd probably have the numbers.

Not saying he would certainly get the preselection he wants anyway, and if he did not saying he would certainly have enough numbers to even put up a fight against Turnbull/Hockey. But as far as the right go he's gotta be one of their considerations.

Ofcourse Costello's still there, still a staunch economic conservative who supports Kyoto, republic and reconcilliation.

 

[Silver Persian]

Turnball comeback, or anomalous poll result? TPP Labour-Liberal 54-46

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24935702-601,00.html

 

[Rafy]

The last poll was clearly a rogue.

20-Sep-08: 55-45
11-Oct-08: 55-45
26-Oct-08: 54-46
09-Nov-08: 55-45
23-Nov-08: 55-45
07-Dec-08: 59-41
19-Jan-09: 54-46

 

[withoutaface]

I feel its using the capitalist system to create the best possible social outcome - so no its not really socialism I don't think. Though perhaps its all relative...

It's both moderate capitalism and moderate socialism because it's a mixed market economy.

 

[withoutaface]

Anyone think Nick Minchin might be looking at a switch to the lower house bid for leadership like Bronwyn Bishop? Minchin is about as conservative a politician as they come and as we speak is probably trying to help his faction win back the leadership but all the right wing prominent libs seem to be getting knocked off the libs fairly quickly.

Dr Nelson is tainted by his fun ride, Ms Bishop fell over herself, Lord Downer walked and Abbott is Abbott.

Meanwhile Turnbull is proving competent, Hockey has had a dream ride, Pyne is growing in stature and seems likely to be the parties next deputy leader for sure, they're pretty much all the people with suitable public profiles to lead a major party in the house, Minchin I think would have no trouble getting the staunch right dry liberals to rally behind him, if he could pick off a few of their centre right libs he'd probably have the numbers.

Not saying he would certainly get the preselection he wants anyway, and if he did not saying he would certainly have enough numbers to even put up a fight against Turnbull/Hockey. But as far as the right go he's gotta be one of their considerations.

Ofcourse Costello's still there, still a staunch economic conservative who supports Kyoto, republic and reconcilliation.

Minchin doesn't add anything electorally, but if he wanted preselection in any seat other than Pyne's he'd get it, and even there it'd be a close run thing. He's good as leader in the Senate because it keeps him high up in the engine room without needing to be too much a part of the public face.

 

[Silver Persian]

The last poll was clearly a rogue.

20-Sep-08: 55-45
11-Oct-08: 55-45
26-Oct-08: 54-46
09-Nov-08: 55-45
23-Nov-08: 55-45
07-Dec-08: 59-41
19-Jan-09: 54-46

Wow that's consistent. :<

 

[King.BBjames]

I think one of the reason why turnbull isnt getting much of an approval rating throughout the polls is because he comes off as an "elitist". sort of a turn off with the average Joe from penrith.

 

[blue_chameleon]

I think one of the reason why turnbull isnt getting much of an approval rating throughout the polls is because he comes off as an "elitist". sort of a turn off with the average Joe from penrith.

JOE!

Oh man, he's moved from the US!

Joe, Joe, Joe.