Would you trade your HECS debt for a volunteer Youth Corps? (4 Viewers)

[Raven3333]

The firefighting thing would be alright because during high risk fire days your "on call" 24 hours a day so you would get credited for 24 hours without actually having to work

 

[Iron]

Great idea. Australia has needed something like the US Peace Corps. It facilitates and unleashes the desire young people have to serve others, improves community cohesion, reduces student debt etcetecetc!

Looks like everybody kicked a goal!
We have a good Prime Minister
We are living in an excellent country
Our future is bright

 

[zstar]

Government this Government that.

I've seen enough of Rudd's crazy Socialism.

First he tried to introduce Internet filters then with his so called apology to Aboriginies even though Labour was the one that introduced this idea of eugenics to the natives thus making it possible then he goes on with his global warming carbon tax nonsense and now he's introducing youth brigades and redistributing wealth like crazy.

This man will destroy this country soon enough.

 

[Kalashnikov47]

I am not eligible for HECS loan, but I am still interested in this!

 

[Trefoil]

You could always work a job part-time/full-time or casual and volunteer in your spare time. You'll probably pay off your HECs quicker and get more flexibility allowing you to volunteer somewhere you really care about.

You know as well as I do that this will provide a far bigger boost to volunteer numbers than would otherwise be normal. It's nothing but a good thing for society and is entirely optional.

It amazes me that detractors still abound.

 

[Trefoil]

P.S. Whitlam was a cunt who I hate for telling Indonesia to invade East Timor "because it was too small" but also grudgingly respect for instituting universal healthcare (Medicare).

P.P.S. The only people who winge about uni fees are mingers. Fees are pretty darn low already, loans have no interest, and there's no deadline to pay said loans off. The government gains little from lowering uni fees any further when they could instead use that money for something of real benefit to society. This said, I don't support any fee hikes.

 

[MJ-47]

Under Whitlam there are X university places. Hawke comes in and turns these into HECS places.

We then have X HECS places.

Howard then brings in Y DFEE places to supplement the X HECS places.

There is no extra financial pressure and to claim so is intellectual dishonest, because there's still just as many accessible places as there were under Whitlam.

1) When Hawke was in power he decreased funding/subsidies to tertiary education which forced universities to lower its intake due to PAYG funding systems (unlike whitlam which payed for UNI fees upfront in semester installments)

2)Rudd then PHASES OUT Y DFEE places...so every1 has to merge under the single catergory of HECS which means there are less university places for every1 which also increases financial pressure on those whose fees arnt covered under the HECS system and have to rely on Fee-help, LIKE ME (this is because with some degrees, some extra costs are incurred which arnt covered by HECS e.g. Aviation, Medicine and some Engineering degrees which must be payed upfront) that is why once DFEE and FEE-help especially are removed that many ppl that partake in these degree's will find it incredibly hard to pay the other costs. like me who has to pay 100k over 3 yrs :mad1:

no more counter claims plz..b4 this debate turns into a fight :burn:

 

[Graney]

It amazes me that detractors still abound.

I guess I'm just addressing the question in the thread title, to which I answer a definite no, and I would advise others not to participate in this scheme.

But I suppose it could get more people volunteering, and that's a fine thing, so long as it doesn't somehow interfere with graduates entering the labor market, and the discount the government gives to participants isn't so substantial that the government ends up losing money over this.

 

[blue_chameleon]

Cost:Benefit ratio would see this scheme fail.

 

[whatashotbyseve]

Well so we assume. Anything less than $20/hr isn't going to cut it amongst an apathetic youth. The opportunity cost just doesn't weigh up. You would hope that a) the 'big business' that advocated the proposal understand this and b) that Rudd listened to them.

 

[xeuyrawp]

You know as well as I do that this will provide a far bigger boost to volunteer numbers than would otherwise be normal. It's nothing but a good thing for society and is entirely optional.

It amazes me that detractors still abound.

I think most people would be happy to pay the small percentage (if any) of their income. The people who are in the higher brackets of pay are earning enough to grudgedly pay the percentage, have paid it off already, or have time much more valuable than the benefits to them.

So, I highly doubt this will take off unless the benefits to the payers are equal or more to doing extra work, which would obviously mean that the benefits would have to scale like the tax amount itself. This would be inherently unfair to the lower earners of the scheme (who are essentially the vast majority), who I think would then not participate because they know that Bob next to them effectively gets paid more for his 'volunteer' work than they do.

Saying it's a good thing to society overestimates the helpfulness of volunteers who're not really volunteering their time. At the very least, the program should be labelled as work where the pay gets funnelled directly into HECS. But then again, that's what normal work is. :-S

 

[Dombrovski]

It sounds like a good idea...

but I don't feel as though it would be as effective as it makes out it will be...

and who has a HECS debt of $12000? Is it taking into account people who try to pay upfront as well? coz thats the only way I see that figure working....
Unless I'm missing something lol

 

[withoutaface]

1) When Hawke was in power he decreased funding/subsidies to tertiary education which forced universities to lower its intake due to PAYG funding systems (unlike whitlam which payed for UNI fees upfront in semester installments)

2)Rudd then PHASES OUT Y DFEE places...so every1 has to merge under the single catergory of HECS which means there are less university places for every1 which also increases financial pressure on those whose fees arnt covered under the HECS system and have to rely on Fee-help, LIKE ME (this is because with some degrees, some extra costs are incurred which arnt covered by HECS e.g. Aviation, Medicine and some Engineering degrees which must be payed upfront) that is why once DFEE and FEE-help especially are removed that many ppl that partake in these degree's will find it incredibly hard to pay the other costs. like me who has to pay 100k over 3 yrs :mad1:

no more counter claims plz..b4 this debate turns into a fight :burn:

Oh don't get me wrong, DFEE places are amazing and Rudd's removal of them had zero utilitarian basis. It's 'unfair' that somebody can pay their way into university, despite the fact that DFEE's existence benefits EVERYONE.

 

[CIV1501]

WarT?

If each subject costs like $900, and you do 32 subjects thats like $28k


Edit: oh lol thats right my work pays for it all upfront

 

[decypher]

Well so we assume. Anything less than $20/hr isn't going to cut it amongst an apathetic youth. The opportunity cost just doesn't weigh up. You would hope that a) the 'big business' that advocated the proposal understand this and b) that Rudd listened to them.

That is what I was thinking.

HECS become payable at around 39K or $21.4* per hour. Thus this isn't an attractive option to somebody rational if we are just considering the monetary side of this policy because they can earn more per hour by working or they are under the threshold and don't have to pay HECS yet.

Also you have to consider that if you clear a certain amount of debt per hour (essentially paying a wage) then it may be possible that the rate required to attract 'volunteers' is above the market wage rate for a particular job. For example I'm sure you can find plenty of people willing to clean up the environment, or feed the homeless for less than $22 an hour.


*39000/ (38*48). Assuming a 38 hour week, with 4 weeks holidays

 

[whatashotbyseve]

I assumed the concept is being aimed at current students (prob first and second years), not graduates. Surely the government realises there is no financial incentive (as there shouldn't be under the definition of 'volunteering') once a graduate enters the full-time workforce.

 

[withoutaface]

Consider also that merely replacing the amount of HECS someone would pay per hour in their normal job isn't going to cut it, because in that job they also receive an immediate wage after HECS is deducted.

 

[DownInFlames]

You could always work a job part-time/full-time or casual and volunteer in your spare time. You'll probably pay off your HECs quicker and get more flexibility allowing you to volunteer somewhere you really care about.

I actually do this already and I would LOVE if the extra 8 or so hours of work I do in my week would help to eradicate my HECS debt. However I don't think I'd take up volunteer work just to pay off HECS, it's probably a lot more practical to get a paying job and pay it off that way. (and like, actually pass my degree)

 

[Iron]

I doubt that the Corps would be full-time. You tally up your hours, do a lot of good and wack it on your CV. Even though we'd have some interest in doing it, I assume that it is aimed at fostering life-long commitments to community involvement
Idealistic stuff! But by all means, continue squirming you rabid selfish cunts

 

[MJ-47]

Oh don't get me wrong, DFEE places are amazing and Rudd's removal of them had zero utilitarian basis. It's 'unfair' that somebody can pay their way into university, despite the fact that DFEE's existence benefits EVERYONE.

this is the last time im gonna post in this thread so im only gonna say this once.

as i have said b4 we live in a capitalist state ...so it is only natural that ppl who pay upfront would recieve some sort of benefit, in this case its a lower UAI.

and some ppl dont have the option of defering every academic cost onto debt in HECS and so must pay upfront in DFEE...if i could i'd defer to HECS. but i cant ! so im stuck with DFEE but because retards upstairs want to save money they are cutting FEE-HELP as well as DFEE which means i have to pay for my whole degree upfront which means some people wont be able to go to university because of (theres that word) financial constraint which has been my central arguement... so do me a favor and...LAY OFF!!!!!!:burn:

This conversation between us is no longer relevent to the original post..so stop posting withoutaface