IDF Flotilla Incident Official Thread (4 Viewers)

[bazrah]

Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

even if they were using paintball guns

a) israel uses paintballs
b) aid workers use metal poles
c) israel then uses machine guns en masse

You can die from being beaten with a metal pole. People don't usually die from paintball guns. Dumb argument.

 

[bazrah]

Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

I would love to come in contact with an Israeli 'Defence' Force soldier...oh, the shit I would cause. Naturally being provoked though. Action and reaction.

The al Dorrah shooting is so sad. Palestina libre.

You would get your arse kicked by an Israeli Defence Force soldier. Your keyboard warrior antics would do nothing against someone trained in Krava Maga.

 

[arcticdbk]

Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

You can die from being beaten with a metal pole. People don't usually die from paintball guns. Dumb argument.

Actually, you pose a dumb argument because up to 20 people on the vessel were killed, and over 60 injured.

There is nothing to prove that paintball guns were used.

 

[Lipin]

Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

How does "9 were killed" make its way to "up to 20" lol?



Paintball gun:

 

[Richard Gilmore]

Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

You can die from being beaten with a metal pole. People don't usually die from paintball guns. Dumb argument.

ok even assuming that, let's assign realistic harm figures

paintball = 1
metal pole = 2
machine guns = 1000000

 

[ibbi00]

Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

Actually, you pose a dumb argument because up to 20 people on the vessel were killed, and over 60 injured.

There is nothing to prove that paintball guns were used.

Exactly... Could have been a picture that was tampered with for all we know.

And also... What the fuck is a shot-gun doing in the hands of the IDF? How very thoughtful of them to bring one along.

 

[ibbi00]

Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

How does "9 were killed" make its way to "up to 20" lol?



Paintball gun:

israeli reports suggest a death toll of 19.

Have you considered this situation?

"Here's the deal boys... ************************. alrighty... Let's do this ... Wait! You! Take this 'paint ball' gun and make sure you smile to that fuckin camera!"

 

[Richard Gilmore]

Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

its pretty hard to determine the difference between a paintball gun and a real gun at distance with fuzzy resolution. and if they planned on using paintball guns, why on earth would they have pistols? if they had pistols, they must have been expecting violence because the idf doesn't assume people are peaceful. that means they expected violence. and there's no way theyd deal with that with a paintball gun.

 

[Lipin]

Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

Name me one organization of a military that goes into a situation with no weapons at all. Maybe they didn't expect violence because they already boarded the other 5 ships with no incident. The key is which weapon they had out and ready, and which weapon they used first.

israeli reports suggest a death toll of 19.

You can google it and find out like, no one is reporting that toll anymore if you want.

Have you considered this situation?

"Here's the deal boys... ************************. alrighty... Let's do this ... Wait! You! Take this 'paint ball' gun and make sure you smile to that fuckin camera!"

Well you probably won't believe anything that comes from their military but if If it's good enough for the anti-Israeli BBC: BBC News - UN urges inquiry into Israel convoy raid

 

[bazrah]

Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

Actually, you pose a dumb argument because up to 20 people on the vessel were killed, and over 60 injured.

There is nothing to prove that paintball guns were used.

It's fun to make up figures. I'm just going off the media and pictures for the paintball guns. Either way it's a logical progression to go from being beaten with a metal pole to opening fire. I'm sure someone as tough as you probably would have caused "all sorts of trouble" and just starting kickboxing everyone to the head, but in reality when your facing an angry mob beating you to a pulp with metal poles opening fire probably seemed justified. It's exactly the same way police end up shooting people who threaten them with knives.

 

[Richard Gilmore]

Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

Name me one organization of a military that goes into a situation with no weapons at all. Maybe they didn't expect violence because they already boarded the other 5 ships with no incident. The key is which weapon they had out and ready, and which weapon they used first.

Hey that's cool, except:

a) they had no right to be boarding those ships
b) nor with weapons
c) nor to threaten their legal activity with weaponry

and even if the aid activists stole those guns (highly doubtful since thats what the IDF is reporting, and since we haven't heard the other side given theyre all in prison), the IDF had no reason to respond with that amount of excessive force.

thats what everyone except yourself and steve price says anyhow.

 

[Richard Gilmore]

Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

It's fun to make up figures. I'm just going off the media and pictures for the paintball guns. Either way it's a logical progression to go from being beaten with a metal pole to opening fire. I'm sure someone as tough as you probably would have caused "all sorts of trouble" and just starting kickboxing everyone to the head, but in reality when your facing an angry mob beating you to a pulp with metal poles opening fire probably seemed justified. It's exactly the same way police end up shooting people who threaten them with knives.

you can't consider the actions of the IDF completely within that context. whether or not the IDF was justified in protecting themselves is irrelevant when placing the blame, since the IDF had no reason to be there.

eg: a robber comes into your home and starts pointing a paintball gun at you, and you defend your home with a metal pole, and then he shoots you dead. who is at fault there?

 

[ibbi00]

Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

Name me one organization of a military that goes into a situation with no weapons at all. Maybe they didn't expect violence because they already boarded the other 5 ships with no incident. The key is which weapon they had out and ready, and which weapon they used first.




You can google it and find out like, no one is reporting that toll anymore if you want.




Well you probably won't believe anything that comes from their military but if If it's good enough for the anti-Israeli BBC: BBC News - UN urges inquiry into Israel convoy raid

SMH is... I'm sure final figure will be released soon.

 

[runoutofsleep]

Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

if you examine the following photograph you can clearly see that the idf bros were just having a friendly paintball match aboard INS freedomparty when suddenly they came under existential threat from aggressive terrorist boats carrying improvised explosive food parcels

 

[Optimus Prime]

Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

its pretty hard to determine the difference between a paintball gun and a real gun at distance with fuzzy resolution. and if they planned on using paintball guns, why on earth would they have pistols? if they had pistols, they must have been expecting violence because the idf doesn't assume people are peaceful. that means they expected violence. and there's no way theyd deal with that with a paintball gun.

No it's not they are very different

 

[Richard Gilmore]

Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

No it's not they are very different

not at that resolution riet

 

[Lipin]

Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

Hey that's cool, except:

a) they had no right to be boarding those ships
b) nor with weapons
c) nor to threaten their legal activity with weaponry

Can you prove it was illegal under international law?
Related: International Institute of Humanitarian Law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and even if the aid activists stole those guns (highly doubtful since thats what the IDF is reporting, and since we haven't heard the other side given theyre all in prison), the IDF had no reason to respond with that amount of excessive force.

thats what everyone except yourself and steve price says anyhow.

Outnumbered soldiers against violent thugs with weapons can't respond with force? Not sure about that. I'm pretty sure it's standard procedure in every military force in the world.

if you examine the following photograph you can clearly see that the idf bros were just having a friendly paintball match aboard INS freedomparty when suddenly they came under existential threat from aggressive terrorist boats carrying improvised explosive food parcels

Hell yeah.

 

[Lipin]

Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

Watch this and tell me you can't see it's a paintball gun:
YouTube - Close-Up Footage of Mavi Marmara Passengers Attacking IDF Soldiers

 

[Optimus Prime]

Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

you can't consider the actions of the IDF completely within that context. whether or not the IDF was justified in protecting themselves is irrelevant when placing the blame, since the IDF had no reason to be there.

eg: a robber comes into your home and starts pointing a paintball gun at you, and you defend your home with a metal pole, and then he shoots you dead. who is at fault there?

Their reason for being there was to search the vessel. Sea Articles 42 and 51 of the United Nations Charter, Chapter VII

 

[Richard Gilmore]

Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

Can you prove it was illegal under international law?
Related: International Institute of Humanitarian Law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't know enough about International law to comment. Nor do you. But on the basis of that link you just gave me,

The following classes of enemy vessels are exempt from attack:

* (a) hospital ships;
* (b) small craft used for coastal rescue operations and other medical transports;
* (c) vessels granted safe conduct by agreement between the belligerent parties including:
o (i) cartel vessels, e.g., vessels designated for and engaged in the transport of prisoners of war;
o (ii) vessels engaged in humanitarian missions, including vessels carrying supplies indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, and vessels engaged in relief actions and rescue operations;
* (d) vessels engaged in transporting cultural property under special protection;
* (e) passenger vessels when engaged only in carrying civilian passengers;
* (f) vessels charged with religious, non-military scientific or philanthropic missions; vessels collecting scientific data of likely military applications are not protected;
* (g) small coastal fishing vessels and small boats engaged in local coastal trade, but they are subject to the regulations of a belligerent naval commander operating in the area and to inspection;
* (h) vessels designated or adapted exclusively for responding to pollution incidents in the marine environment;
* (i) vessels which have surrendered;
* (j) life rafts and lifeboats.

Heh.

I'm fairly sure that international law regards half of what Israel does as illegal, and I'm fairly sure that interntional law would say the engagement of a humanitarian vessel with only civilians on board, in the first instance, would be fairly illegal

Outnumbered soldiers against violent thugs with weapons can't respond with force? Not sure about that. I'm pretty sure it's standard procedure in every military force in the world.

excessive force. you're not very good at this are you? the IDF could have responded with say, idk, tear gas. or a taser. or a metal pipe. or better yet, they shouldn't have been there in the first place.