Human Induced Climate Change (2 Viewers)

[Belalan]

I havent seen a human induced climate change debate on here, and given that it is under "current affairs" and possibly "politics" as well I thought I'd start the thread.

A list of references and figures for those who may be interested
(Some of these are biased one way or another)



General Overview of the evidence for Human induced Climate Change
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Warming


General Overview of evidence against Human induced Climate Change:
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/ice_ages.html


Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mauna_Loa_Carbon_Dioxide.png
http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/sio-keel.html
http://asterisk.apod.com/download/file.php?id=45

IPCC:
http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/publications_and_data_reports.shtml


Current Climate Models (Future looking)
http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/File:Global_Warming_Predictions_Map_jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Global_Warming_Predictions.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Global_Temperature_Anomaly_1880-2010_(Fig.A).gif (Land Based)


Past Temperature Models:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png (Note the variance increases as t approaches 2000)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Five_Myr_Climate_Change.png
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads12/image2771201286378.gif
http://www.theoildrum.com/uploads/12/global_temperature.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Phanerozoic_Climate_Change.png
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ice_Age_Temperature.png (Demonstrates glacial/interglacial cycles)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png
http://asterisk.apod.com/download/file.php?id=44
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/image162.gif
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/image161.gif

Climate Model Problems :
http://www.icecap.us/images/uploads/IPPCMODELS.JPG <== IMG
http://nzclimatescience.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=604&Itemid=32
http://nzclimatescience.net/images/PDFs/niwa.ct.docs.pdf

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/BMAONE23/chart.jpg?t=1240852987

Lack of positive feedback mechanism in greenhouse gasses:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect#Real_greenhouses

Solar Variance:
http://www-ssc.igpp.ucla.edu/IASTP/43/
http://www-eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lindzen/198_greenhouse.pdf
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/2001IAUS..203..602P
http://www.solarstorms.org/CloudCover.html
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364682696001836
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carbon-14_with_activity_labels.png (Levels of C14 and Be10 are related to solar activity)
http://icecap.us/images/uploads/SSLESSDAYS2008.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Temp-sunspot-co2.svg

Arctic / Antarctic Ice Variation
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=17367330
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/quikscat-20071001.html
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2008/071708.html
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2003EAEJA....13830K

Urban Heat Island Effect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_heat_island

Water Vapour Absorbance compared to carbon dioxide Experiment
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/04/water-vapour-feedback-or-forcing/

Long wave Radiation Absorbance
http://web.archive.org/web/20060330013311/http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/spring04/atmo451b/pdf/RadiationBudget.pdf


Variable Climatic Conditions:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2267652.stm
http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCATRE53R27V20090428


Ice Core Data
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/temp_vs_CO2.html


Methodical Fallacy
http://www.paulmacrae.com/?p=91

 

[cheese_cheese]

Climate Change should not simply be misdeed. The Precautionary Principle (Arrow et all) states that action must be taken to mitigate the risks.

 

[Belalan]

Climate Change should not simply be misdeed. The Precautionary Principle (Arrow et all) states that action must be taken to mitigate the risks.

If you checked the links you would have seen the following:
Human addition to "greenhouse gasses" contributes to approximately 0.28% of the total "greenhouse gasses" the worst offender being water vapour at approximately 95% (these figures vary from paper to paper with CO2 being credited with a maximum effect of 22% in some papers and Water vapour with a minimum effect of 75%).

So, assuming that human induced climate change exists, may I enquire as to what precautions you are suggesting?

 

[Chemical Ali]

>deleting legit posts

ok

 

[Chemical Ali]

If you checked the links you would have seen the following:
Human addition to "greenhouse gasses" contributes to approximately 0.28% of the total "greenhouse gasses" the worst offender being water vapour at approximately 95% (these figures vary from paper to paper with CO2 being credited with a maximum effect of 22% in some papers and Water vapour with a minimum effect of 75%).

So, assuming that human induced climate change exists, may I enquire as to what precautions you are suggesting?

oh okay, well that sure is a very small number I'm sure the scientists never noticed that, it's not like there's a "carbon cycle" or anything like that right I mean throw out all the global circulation models and forget the whole show because some tard pointed out a single number also nice non-sequitur there with the 2nd statement

 

[scuba_steve2121]

Earth's climate changes all the time, we're gonna hit another Milankovitch cycle induced ice age in another 5-10000 anyways, if human induced global warming speeds that up by a 100-150 years, well I couldn't give a flying fuck

 

[Belalan]

@Chemical Ali
Scientists have noticed it, and most current models incorporate a "stable climate" ideal where addition of CO2 beyond these values is considered to cause "Climate Change". Again these are only the models and do not account for the lack of explained positive feedback, or the exponential filling of electron shells of CO2 in the infra-red (heat) spectrum.

Personally I do not believe in the existence of human induced climate change, but I am more than willing to support the transition from "fossil fuels" to cleaner and more reliable sources of power. Thus the reason for my question as to how one would propose to cut "carbon emissions".

 

[SXCBEAST]

human induced climate change does not exist.

 

[Chemical Ali]

GCMs include dozens of forcings that are accounting for why "Earth's climate changes all the time" as another poster put it

If you want to disprove AGW, all you have to do is develop a global circulation model that can account for increased post-1970 warming without an increased greenhouse forcing component (or explain where the extra greenhouse forcing came from other than human emissions)

Why haven't any mainstream climatologists (or skeptics) done so yet?

 

[Garygaz]

global warming suddenly disappears - now it is climate change

 

[boris]

I havent seen a human induced climate change debate on here, and given that it is under "current affairs" and possibly "politics" as well I thought I'd start the thread.

A list of references and figures for those who may be interested
(Some of these are biased one way or another)



General Overview of the evidence for Human induced Climate Change
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Warming


General Overview of evidence against Human induced Climate Change:
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/ice_ages.html


Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mauna_Loa_Carbon_Dioxide.png
http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/sio-keel.html
http://asterisk.apod.com/download/file.php?id=45

IPCC:
http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/publications_and_data_reports.shtml


Current Climate Models (Future looking)
http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/File:Global_Warming_Predictions_Map_jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Global_Warming_Predictions.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Global_Temperature_Anomaly_1880-2010_(Fig.A).gif (Land Based)


Past Temperature Models:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png (Note the variance increases as t approaches 2000)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Five_Myr_Climate_Change.png
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads12/image2771201286378.gif
http://www.theoildrum.com/uploads/12/global_temperature.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Phanerozoic_Climate_Change.png
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ice_Age_Temperature.png (Demonstrates glacial/interglacial cycles)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png
http://asterisk.apod.com/download/file.php?id=44
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/image162.gif
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/image161.gif

Climate Model Problems :
http://www.icecap.us/images/uploads/IPPCMODELS.JPG <== IMG
http://nzclimatescience.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=604&Itemid=32
http://nzclimatescience.net/images/PDFs/niwa.ct.docs.pdf

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/BMAONE23/chart.jpg?t=1240852987

Lack of positive feedback mechanism in greenhouse gasses:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect#Real_greenhouses

Solar Variance:
http://www-ssc.igpp.ucla.edu/IASTP/43/
http://www-eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lindzen/198_greenhouse.pdf
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/2001IAUS..203..602P
http://www.solarstorms.org/CloudCover.html
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364682696001836
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carbon-14_with_activity_labels.png (Levels of C14 and Be10 are related to solar activity)
http://icecap.us/images/uploads/SSLESSDAYS2008.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Temp-sunspot-co2.svg

Arctic / Antarctic Ice Variation
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=17367330
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/quikscat-20071001.html
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2008/071708.html
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2003EAEJA....13830K

Urban Heat Island Effect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_heat_island

Water Vapour Absorbance compared to carbon dioxide Experiment
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/04/water-vapour-feedback-or-forcing/

Long wave Radiation Absorbance
http://web.archive.org/web/20060330013311/http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/spring04/atmo451b/pdf/RadiationBudget.pdf


Variable Climatic Conditions:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2267652.stm
http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCATRE53R27V20090428


Ice Core Data
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/temp_vs_CO2.html


Methodical Fallacy
http://www.paulmacrae.com/?p=91

it has been discussed many times
you might wanna try to search function

lock thread and ban op

 

[boris]

who gives a fuck if lots of current species die out now
they arent fucking special lol millions of species have become extinct in the past
when these cunts become extinct they will just be replaced with even cooler animals in the future

 

[kaz1]

First law of thermodynamics; where does the fucken heat go cunts?

 

[cheese_cheese]

First law of thermodynamics; where does the fucken heat go cunts?

Exactly.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

First law of thermodynamics; where does the fucken heat go cunts?

back out to space as terrestial radiation... plz don't eat me

 

[kaz1]

back out to space as terrestial radiation... plz don't eat me

wat aboot ze atmosfear?

 

[Belalan]

it has been discussed many times
you might wanna try to search function

lock thread and ban op

I tried the search function and the closest approximation I found was the carbon tax thread.

 

[Carl Spitzweg]

turn the air conditioning up to combat climate change

 

[scuba_steve2121]

wat aboot ze atmosfear?

on average, 50% of solar radiation that hits the earth is absorbed by the oceans and land, 32 % is reflected straight away by the earth and 18% is absorbed by the atmosphere, that 68% leaves as long wave radiation eventually

so its that 18% that worries people, that what if it grew it to 19% and only 18% was still released at the same rate. hence warming

of course I'm one of those crazy people that think the amount of solar radiation we receive and its distribution across the surface of the earth caused by Milankovicth cycles is what is causing the climate to shift as it has since the earth had a climate

 

[Carl Spitzweg]

long wave radiation cowabunga dudes surfs up