Advantages of high ranking schools (2 Viewers)

[Triage]

Wow a top 30 school? *envy*

Dude that combo can get you 99.95! Don't even stress about it!

How much of an advantage does a good ranking school actually give you?

 

[OzKo]

Re: Subject selection!!!!

How much of an advantage does a good ranking school actually give you?

None.

It depends on the performance of your fellow students.

 

[iSplicer]

Re: Subject selection!!!!

None.

It depends on the performance of your fellow students.

... which is CONSIDERABLY higher in a well-ranked school.

 

[enoilgam]

Re: Subject selection!!!!

How much of an advantage does a good ranking school actually give you?

It depends really (its a controversial issue). It can help if you do worst externally than internally, but on the whole I dont think its really a significant advantage. As I have said ad nauseam on the site before, the biggest determinant of a students success is the student themself.

 

[iSplicer]

Re: Subject selection!!!!

It depends really (its a controversial issue). It can help if you do worst externally than internally, but on the whole I dont think its really a significant advantage. As I have said ad nauseam on the site before, the biggest determinant of a students success is the student themself.

I disagree to the fullest possible extent.

Going to a top 5 school provides an advantage beyond your wildest imagination. I'm not even joking.

 

[LoveHateSchool]

Re: Subject selection!!!!

I still believe the biggest determinant is the student's work ethic.

That said, kids are so lucky to get to go to the top selectives, see I go to comprehensive even if I do really well internally, I have to bring it externally. So you're in trouble if you under perform in a HSC exam externally because it will affect your internal (and year's) worth of work. The competition and caliber of your peers and good resources are some of the best perks of a selective. Plus the fact that the external mark spread will be far less than at a comprehensive.

The top selectives are also all in Sydney too-massive advantage. There are so many HSC resources and assistance one can make use of if they live in Sydney. See I live 7 whole hours away, which I think is a quite a disadvantage.

 

[enoilgam]

Re: Subject selection!!!!

If you go to a disadvantaged school or a place where the environment is hostile towards learning (i.e. a school with behaviour/academic issues so bad that teachers cant be bothered teaching) then it can have an impact. Even still though, I think if a student truly wants they can somewhat overcome this disadvantage and obtain success.

Also, I dont believe a selective school is going to give you a gapping advantage over your run-of-the-mill school. Sure some students may perform better at selective high schools, but I doubt this is true for all students. I turned down a selective school to go to my local catholic high school and I rate it as being one of the best decisions I ever made. I never viewed myself as ever being at a disadvantage to selective school students in the slightest.

 

[theind1996]

Re: Subject selection!!!!

From personal experience, with selective schools, the advantages are:
A. If you don't do well as you would like in the externals, often, your internal mark will be relatively decent..
B. You have constant competition, so you are likely to be motivated to work harder.
C. The students are generally all academic, so the school can dedicate staff/facilities/resources simply on academics more so than other schools.
D. Other students often frequent sites such as these, so you may have knowledge regarding where to find notes/past papers/digital resources on the Internet to a greater extent.

 

[MUSE13]

Re: Subject selection!!!!

I disagree to the fullest possible extent.

Going to a top 5 school provides an advantage beyond your wildest imagination. I'm not even joking.

+1 thats so true i've heard of people from selective shoools who did no work during the HSC but still ended up with 95+ beucase thier class average was high thus increaseing thier atar ..

 

[enoilgam]

Re: Subject selection!!!!

+1 thats so true i've heard of people from selective shoools who did no work during the HSC but still ended up with 95+ beucase thier class average was high thus increaseing thier atar ..

I think this is vastly overstating things. If you want an ATAR over 95, you have to put in some degree of work. A high ranking selective school doesnt magically elevate a students ATAR to ridiculous levels.

 

[MUSE13]

Re: Subject selection!!!!

I think this is vastly overstating things. If you want an ATAR over 95, you have to put in some degree of work. A high ranking selective school doesnt magically elevate a students ATAR to ridiculous levels.

yea but it helps...

 

[enoilgam]

Re: Subject selection!!!!

yea but it helps...

It helps in certain situations (i.e. you do proportionally worse in the external exams). But again, this factor is far outweighed by the student and their personal attributes.

 

[iSplicer]

Re: Subject selection!!!!

I think this is vastly overstating things. If you want an ATAR over 95, you have to put in some degree of work.

No it's not.

A high ranking selective school doesnt magically elevate a students ATAR to ridiculous levels.

Yes it does.

 

[iSplicer]

Re: Subject selection!!!!

If you go to a disadvantaged school or a place where the environment is hostile towards learning (i.e. a school with behaviour/academic issues so bad that teachers cant be bothered teaching) then it can have an impact. Even still though, I think if a student truly wants they can somewhat overcome this disadvantage and obtain success.

Also, I dont believe a selective school is going to give you a gapping advantage over your run-of-the-mill school. Sure some students may perform better at selective high schools, but I doubt this is true for all students. I turned down a selective school to go to my local catholic high school and I rate it as being one of the best decisions I ever made. I never viewed myself as ever being at a disadvantage to selective school students in the slightest.

You have no basis in which to 'doubt' anything, as you didn't go to a selective school and thus haven't experienced what a MASSIVE advantage both the learning environment and the quality of the candidature give you. The stats are clearly on my side.

Readers: ignore what the sappy lefties have to say. Top 5 selective school = HUGE, HUGE advantage.

 

[MUSE13]

Re: Subject selection!!!!

You have no basis in which to 'doubt' anything, as you didn't go to a selective school and thus haven't experienced what a MASSIVE advantage both the learning environment and the quality of the candidature give you. The stats are clearly on my side.

Readers: ignore what the sappy lefties have to say. Top 5 selective school = HUGE, HUGE advantage.

i also found it interesting that that most people that do these high end degrees e.g syd law , or med have mostly come from selective schools at uws med for example, most of the med students who have come from high school have come from selective schools such as james ruse ... just an observation

 

[theind1996]

Re: Subject selection!!!!

i also found it interesting that that most people that do these high end degrees e.g syd law , or med have mostly come from selective schools at uws med for example, most of the med students who have come from high school have come from selective schools such as james ruse ... just an observation

Yea lol no shit. That's because they tend to work harder/are more naturally intelligent on average..

Selective schools are high ATAR factories of sorts.

 

[enoilgam]

Re: Subject selection!!!!

You have no basis in which to 'doubt' anything, as you didn't go to a selective school and thus haven't experienced what a MASSIVE advantage both the learning environment and the quality of the candidature give you. The stats are clearly on my side.

Readers: ignore what the sappy lefties have to say. Top 5 selective school = HUGE, HUGE advantage.

a) The learning environment has a mixed impact on people. It may motivate some, but it can also demoralise others. I may not have gone to a high ranking school, but I tutor people that do and for some of them, their morale and confidence are very low because they are towards the middle - bottom of the cohort. Also, some people are very self-motivated and can do well anywhere. Knowing myself it wouldnt have made much difference for me, because I was highly motivated by my own personal goals and ambitions.

I would probably say that the intangible advantage of a high ranking high school is dependant on the person. iSplicers feels that it has given him a massive advantage, but that may not be the case for all students. I feel that I had more than enough motivation at my old high school, but again, that might not be the case for everyone.

b) From a marks perspective, it can give you an advantage in some circumstances (the main advantage is if you do proportionally worse externally). But this advantage really isnt that "massive". At the end of the day, at least 50% of the course is based on the final exam, where the playing field is level.

Lets look at a hypothetical for the internal marks - candidate A and candidate B are both students of above average intelligence and very hard working. Both are capable of an ATAR of 95 with their best efforts and do the same subjects (ceteris paribus). Candidate A goes to Ruse, candidate B goes to a school ranked in the 300's. Candidate A's rankings would probably be greatly below average at Ruse, whilst candidate B would be at the top of his school. The quality of candidate A's school will bring his internal mark up, however, the fact that candidate B is at the top of their subjects will probably pull their marks up at their school. So realistically, these two factors can somewhat counteract each other. Now, as I mentioned before there are some situations where the selective school has an advantage, so the two factors may not entirely counteract. Nonetheless, with these factors in play, the results will be pretty close to each other in most cases.

To be honest, the whole selective school advantage is more or less a personal thing (excluding the advantage which a selective school can give you if you botch the externals). iSplicer says his school gave him a massive advantage which is probably true for him personally. By the same token, I say that my high school didnt give me any disadvantage (FYI my internal marks were very close to my external marks, if anything, I was slightly pulled up by the cohort). Now, iSplicers and my view of the intangible advantages which our high schools gave us are true for us as individuals, but they are not necessarily true for everyone.

 

[mirakon]

Re: Subject selection!!!!

You have no basis in which to 'doubt' anything, as you didn't go to a selective school and thus haven't experienced what a MASSIVE advantage both the learning environment and the quality of the candidature give you. The stats are clearly on my side.

Readers: ignore what the sappy lefties have to say. Top 5 selective school = HUGE, HUGE advantage.

To be fair a lot of high end students often take scholarships over selective school offers. A lot of schools in the private system can provide an environment that caters for students just as well as any selective school. Selective schools don't necessarily perform better due to the fact that said schools are better, but they simply take a lot of the high end students who would in most cases perform well in almost any environment.

It really depends on the student in the end. Some perform better in an environment that is competitive, some prefer to swim at their own pace

 

[iBibah]

You have no basis in which to 'doubt' anything, as you didn't go to a selective school and thus haven't experienced what a MASSIVE advantage both the learning environment and the quality of the candidature give you. The stats are clearly on my side.

Readers: ignore what the sappy lefties have to say. Top 5 selective school = HUGE, HUGE advantage.

You seem to think that whatever works for you also works for everyone. Open you mind a bit.

I go to a school NOT EVEN RANKED (600+) and someone got 99.90 in 2010. If you saying that top selective schools have advantage, then that means this student is smarter than a 99.90 at your school?

The playing field is level for the most part. There may be advantages with competitive environment etc. but that is not an advantage for everyone.

 

[iSplicer]

Re: Subject selection!!!!

I go to a school NOT EVEN RANKED (600+) and someone got 99.90 in 2010. If you saying that top selective schools have advantage, then that means this student is smarter than a 99.90 at your school?

Absolutely.

EDIT: I'll take 'smarter' in this context to include dedication, resourcefulness, learning ability, etc.