hmm... (3 Viewers)

[George121]

I like how everyone is arguing over fine points but have completely missed that the cutoff the OP has posted is fictitious and a possible troll. All ATARS and cutoffs are in .05 multiples. Anyway OP it depends largely on what course and uni this is at and if there are possible bonus marks.

How about you do some research before accusing me of being a troll..My course requires 81.04, don't ask how or why cause i don't know

 

[Azure]

But if the ATAR cut-off is supposed to represent the ATAR of the successful last applicant, then can't that be artificially raised by not disclosing those which used bonus points (ergo "artificially raising it")? I'm more inclined to believe that the sentence was poorly worded as the article is essentially discussing the usage of alternative entry schemes.I can't see anything in the article stating that applicatants are being accepted on a whim.

Assuming you're correct, the article would make zero sense because you've got somebody from Macquarie University apparently publicly criticising the alternative entry scheme in the lead up to the university adopting it. It's literally PR suicide and a one way ticket out of employment at the uni.I'm not saying they're accepting people on a whim. I'm saying that is certainly is possible for people to get in with a lower ATAR than what's published (not taking into account the bonus schemes)

 

[OzKo]

Assuming you're correct, the article would make zero sense because you've got somebody from Macquarie University apparently publicly criticising the alternative entry scheme in the lead up to the university adopting it. It's literally PR suicide and a one way ticket out of employment at the uni.I'm not saying they're accepting people on a whim. I'm saying that is certainly is possible for people to get in with a lower ATAR than what's published (not taking into account the bonus schemes)

Where is Cooney criticising alternative entry schemes?The issue being highlighted in the article is the transparency of such schemes. There's always a basis in which universities may accept these students but they aren't publicising these bonus schemes. Furthermore, Cooney is also stating that they are using these schemes as a marketing tool because they know students and families are judging the quality of a degree program based on this number. Nowhere does it actually state that universities are pre-determining a cut-off and just letting students in anyway. The point is that the cut-off isn't taking into account the bonus schemes whether or not they are transparent.

 

[brent012]

How about you do some research before accusing me of being a troll..My course requires 81.04, don't ask how or why cause i don't know

I did do some research. Every main round offer for 2012 was (as expected) a multiple of 0.05. I apologise if the cutoff for a particular course is listed somewhere as 81.04 but i'd say it's likely a typo as the cutoff is the lowest succesful ATAR and all ATAR's are a 0.05 multiple. The only mention of a 81.04 atar or cutoff i can find on google are posts you have made.

But if the ATAR cut-off is supposed to represent the ATAR of the successful last applicant, then can't that be artificially raised by not disclosing those which used bonus points (ergo "artificially raising it")? I'm more inclined to believe that the sentence was poorly worded as the article is essentially discussing the usage of alternative entry schemes.I can't see anything in the article stating that applicatants are being accepted on a whim.

From my understanding ATAR's considered are inclusive of bonus points and so are the cutoffs. For example ICT Engineering without a major at UTS somehow had a cutoff of 95.40 this year but i know someone who got in with an atar in the 80s, he can justify the equivalent of 10-15 bonus marks (subjects, location and a questionaire).

 

[George121]

I did do some research. Every main round offer for 2012 was (as expected) a multiple of 0.05. I apologise if the cutoff for a particular course is listed somewhere as 81.04 but i'd say it's likely a typo as the cutoff is the lowest succesful ATAR and all ATAR's are a 0.05 multiple. The only mention of a 81.04 atar or cutoff i can find on google are posts you have made. From my understanding ATAR's considered are inclusive of bonus points and so are the cutoffs. For example ICT Engineering without a major at UTS somehow had a cutoff of 95.40 this year but i know someone who got in with an atar in the 80s, he can justify the equivalent of 10-15 bonus marks (subjects, location and a questionaire).

Yeah apologies, i think it was either a typo or the ATAR requirement has changed.. because its now 81.95 and it wasn't that high when i applied through UAC

 

[Azure]

Where is Cooney criticising alternative entry schemes?The issue being highlighted in the article is the transparency of such schemes. There's always a basis in which universities may accept these students but they aren't publicising these bonus schemes. Furthermore, Cooney is also stating that they are using these schemes as a marketing tool because they know students and families are judging the quality of a degree program based on this number. Nowhere does it actually state that universities are pre-determining a cut-off and just letting students in anyway. The point is that the cut-off isn't taking into account the bonus schemes whether or not they are transparent.

I didn't say he was criticising them - I was operating under the assumption that that was your argument (which I am still having issues identifying exactly). On one hand you make the concession that there is a problem with transparency and that this is indeed the articles' main focus, yet in the same breath you seem unwilling to accept the fact that this same lack of transparency may potentially lead to the admission of students with lower ATARs than what has been published (bar any alternative entry schemes). You are contradicting yourself.I'm still not sure why people are intent on turning this into a debate. I offered two accounts of two people I personally know getting into their courses with lower ATAR cutoffs without any alternative entry or special consideration schemes. You can either accept or reject that, I don't really care. Every opinion (including my own) should be taken with a grain of salt and researched thoroughly.

 

[gwenwiver]

The mark is established by the last person offered a place in the round so the 81.04. The ATAR of a specific person. If a university say decides to offer 100 places in a course the 100th person must have had an ATAR of 81.04. If a university wants to look good and ensure their ATAR is above 90 they will only offer places to those students who have an ATAR equal to or greater then 90. By the way this is not an opinion, It is a fact.

 

[OzKo]

I didn't say he was criticising them - I was operating under the assumption that that was your argument (which I am still having issues identifying exactly). On one hand you make the concession that there is a problem with transparency and that this is indeed the articles' main focus, yet in the same breath you seem unwilling to accept the fact that this same lack of transparency may potentially lead to the admission of students with lower ATARs than what has been published (bar any alternative entry schemes). You are contradicting yourself.I'm still not sure why people are intent on turning this into a debate. I offered two accounts of two people I personally know getting into their courses with lower ATAR cutoffs without any alternative entry or special consideration schemes. You can either accept or reject that, I don't really care. Every opinion (including my own) should be taken with a grain of salt and researched thoroughly.

There would have been a basis as to why they were accepted. They most likely did not know why.

 

[Azure]

There would have been a basis as to why they were accepted. They most likely did not know why.

I highly doubt it.

 

[OzKo]

I highly doubt it.

Having gone to a school in the area, I'm very much of aware of the numerous bonus points MQ use which aren't openly publicised but promoted to local students. I assure you that universities aren't looking to deceive the public.

 

[Azure]

Having gone to a school in the area, I'm very much of aware of the numerous bonus points MQ use which aren't openly publicised but promoted to local students. I assure you that universities aren't looking to deceive the public.

Thank you for the assurance OzKo. Neither of them go to Macquarie University and both of them are assured me that they were not privy to any bonus points.I think I've said enough on the issue. The back and forth is a little annoying.

 

[OzKo]

Very well.

 

[George121]

Back to me now..

If i get the required ATAR with bonus points granted through the EAS, will someone who achieved the same ATAR without bonus points have more priority?

 

[brent012]

Back to me now.. If i get the required ATAR with bonus points granted through the EAS, will someone who achieved the same ATAR without bonus points have more priority?

If they weren't eligible for any bonus points then you would both have an equal chance of getting in.

 

[nifkeh]

If you can't get in the main round, you might get in after the main round (if they do lower the ATAR requirements by a little bit and that the places aren't all filled up?) I think.

there are alternate entry pathways too for uni's if you get below the ATAR cut off, but whether they accept you or not is up to their discretion.

 

[Shadowdude]

since when can ATAR cut offs end with anything other than 0 or 5?

 

[brent012]

since when can ATAR cut offs end with anything other than 0 or 5?

I already brought that up =P

 

[gwenwiver]

If you can't get in the main round, you might get in after the main round (if they do lower the ATAR requirements by a little bit and that the places aren't all filled up?) I think.

there are alternate entry pathways too for uni's if you get below the ATAR cut off, but whether they accept you or not is up to their discretion.

You should check the alternative pathways for Macquarie iniversity on their website

http://mq.edu.au/future_students/undergraduate/alternative_access/

For UWS the alternative pathway page is

http://future.uws.edu.au/future_students_home/pathways-to-uws