Noob Medicine Questions. Seeking Answers/Guidance From Almighty Medicine Gurus. (1 Viewer)

[kietkiet]

Background info:
I've always been interested in both Computers and Medicine, and being born into a very 'computer-oriented' family, i've never had a Computer related question unanswered. However no one in my family has any experience in Medicine, so naturally my curiosity just tumbles into a big snowball of unanswered questions.

Plan:
I'm planning on doing Computer Science next year and decide at the end of next year whether or not i'll transfer to medicine.

Problem:
I have an interest in Computers and so studying for Computer Science wouldn't be too much of an issue for me, however I just don't see myself working in the IT industry because it just seems too 'boring'. Whereas with Medicine, I have no background in Science, and studying MIGHT be slightly more difficult. This makes me hesitant in studying Med because I might not be able to handle the workload and become another Med Student Dropout. However, a career in Medicine seems more fun and rewarding to me than a career in IT.

Tl;dr
Studying for Computer Science = Fun, Working in IT field = Not Fun
Studying for Medicine = Not Fun/Big commitment, Working in Medicine = Fun


Questions:
1) What's the difference between the UMAT and the GAMSAT ?
2) What are the common pathways into Med if you don't get the required ATAR ?
3) Is tutoring for the UMAT recommended ? What percentile do you need to be able to get into Med ?
4) It's possible to transfer from any degree to medicine right ? (As long as you have the requried GPA)
5) Is it recommended to do a Medical related degree (e.g. Biomedicine, Medical Science, etc) to transfer into Med ?
6) In First Year Med, do they just assume you know nothing and start from the beginning ?
7) Does University of Newcastle have a good medicine program ? Cause I'm interested in surgery or anaesthesiology.
8) After what year do you specialise in the field you're interested in ?
9) Is it hard balancing work, social life, and a medical degree ?
10) Graduate pay, Good or Bad ?
11) Is being a Doctor as prestigious/rewarding as it was in the past ?
12) Exactly how much debt will you be in after finishing a med degree ? And approx. how long will it take to pay it all off ? lmao

Feel free to answer any questions, any input is good.

 

[Chubbeh]

1) UMAT is done as an undergraduate (before you graduate) whereas GAMSAT is post-graduate.
Apparently GAMSAT is a much more vigorous exam and can test first year Chemistry and Biology.

2) Post-graduate study (in which you must do GAMSAT). From what I've heard, people have graduated with BMedSci or BAdvSci or done a Masters in BiomedEng before transferring.

3) UMAT is designed to test your analytical and way of thinking - to see if you have the correct mindset of an aspiring medical professional pretty much. Depending on your current method of thinking, I'm not sure if tutoring is recommended. Though you could always go for the experience with the questions they may ask. Not too sure about the UMAT percentile, sorry. Though I know it depends based on the Uni you are trying to get into.

5) Considering you do not have a Science background, it may be helpful to understand some of the concepts within the study of Medicine before you get into it.

 

[kietkiet]

1) UMAT is done as an undergraduate (before you graduate) whereas GAMSAT is post-graduate.
Apparently GAMSAT is a much more vigorous exam and can test first year Chemistry and Biology.

2) Post-graduate study (in which you must do GAMSAT). From what I've heard, people have graduated with BMedSci or BAdvSci or done a Masters in BiomedEng before transferring.

3) UMAT is designed to test your analytical and way of thinking - to see if you have the correct mindset of an aspiring medical professional pretty much. Depending on your current method of thinking, I'm not sure if tutoring is recommended. Though you could always go for the experience with the questions they may ask. Not too sure about the UMAT percentile, sorry. Though I know it depends based on the Uni you are trying to get into.

5) Considering you do not have a Science background, it may be helpful to understand some of the concepts within the study of Medicine before you get into it.

Thanks dude.
- So the GAMSAT more 'distinguished' or 'looked upon more highly' than the UMAT ?
- Hypothetically, if I do Computer Science next year, sit the UMAT, and score well on the UMAT, I can still get into Med without having to waste the extra years right ?

 

[Riproot]

Questions:
1) What's the difference between the UMAT and the GAMSAT?

There are a lot of differences but the biggest is that one is undergraduate and the other is graduate.

2) What are the common pathways into Med if you don't get the required ATAR?

Go to university for a year, get over 4.2 GPA and get a UMAT over 60:50:50 and go to UNCLE/UNE
OR
Get a GPA over 6.0/6.2 and get a UMAT over 151.5/154 weighted and go to UWS
OR
Get a UMAT >65th %ile + a lot of money and go to Bond
OR
Go do graduate med

3) Is tutoring for the UMAT recommended? What percentile do you need to be able to get into Med?

Nope. You should be able to do it on your own, and if you can't I guess tutoring would be good then, but there is only so much you can be taught. E.g. I only did like 4 or 5 lessons with someone this year before I couldn't really teach here anymore because she wasn't picking a lot of stuff up.
She goes to Bond now though, so it's okay.
Depends on the uni and your location and stuff.

4) It's possible to transfer from any degree to medicine right? (As long as you have the required GPA)

Yep. There are people in my course who have studied Finance, Actuarial, Theological Studies, Medical Science, Engineering, etc.

5) Is it recommended to do a Medical related degree (e.g. Biomedicine, Medical Science, etc) to transfer into Med?

It is only recommended because you will have a foundation of knowledge to work from BUT it does not help too much. I know people who have completed science degrees and then failed their first year of medicine.

6) In First Year Med, do they just assume you know nothing and start from the beginning?

Nope. You should know some basic sciences and they assume that, but it's nothing you can't learn in a few hours, which you should get used to because med is all about learning entire subjects in one or two hours.
Other courses: Learn some immunology as 1 of 4 subjects each semester for 4 semesters.
Med: Learn all of immunology in 1 to 4 lectures.

7) Does University of Newcastle have a good medicine program? Cause I'm interested in surgery or anaesthesiology.

Afaik they do. And there are definitely surgeons and anaesthetists out there who graduated from UNCLE.
Our Deputy Dean went to UNCLE (I think in its first year) and he's an immunologist (/fitness buff).

8) After what year do you specialise in the field you're interested in?

Medicine degrees range from 4 to 6 years in length.
After you graduate you do an intern year
Then a resident year
Then maybe another one
Or you start specialising then
So depending on where you go you can begin specialising 6 to 9 years in
and be fully specialised in 9 to 16 years (maybe longer for some things)

9) Is it hard balancing work, social life, and a medical degree?

Yes.
I'm not going to pretend it isn't hard.
It's very hard
But it comes down to you sacrificing.
You really have to sacrifice in one of these areas
I sacrifice work A LOT and study a little and social life a little, and it's still a bit difficult.
BUT
as long as you stay on top of things you can still be social and work ~a little~

10) Graduate pay, Good or Bad?

Good.
Grad pay can start as low as $45k, but this doesn't include overtime.
Some interns earn up to $110k in their first year.

11) Is being a Doctor as prestigious/rewarding as it was in the past?

I don't know.
Probs not.
I never really thought about this until after I got in and all of my extended family referred to me as "the smart doctor" and stuff.

12) Exactly how much debt will you be in after finishing a med degree? And approx. how long will it take to pay it all off? lmao

~$36,000-$317,114 (not including any other courses you do) depending on where you go.
I think it comes out of your tax, but I'm not really sure. ~~~

 

[Riproot]

Thanks dude.
- So the GAMSAT more 'distinguished' or 'looked upon more highly' than the UMAT ?
- Hypothetically, if I do Computer Science next year, sit the UMAT, and score well on the UMAT, I can still get into Med without having to waste the extra years right?

Nope.
In fact GAMSAT tends to be looked down upon because the people who sit it are mostly people who missed out on undergraduate medicine entry, and it tests more ~learnable knowledge~ than ~innate intelligence~.
Yes. Look at my signature. ~~~

 

[Medman]

I'm a bit short on time but I'll try answer as many questions as I can succinctly.

GAMSAT is not "more" distinguished, it's harder because people who take it are older. You need to study a lot of science in order to sit the UMAT. It is draining and you will feel like you exercised for hrs after finishing the exam.

GPA calculations are usually lower compared to ATAR. If you get a high distinctions in your course an ATAR of 99+ still might be counted as higher. I don't know how they compare the two but from talking to people it is harder to get a higher GPA than it is to get a high ATAR.

You can't ever "transfer" into medicine. You reapply for entry.

First year medicine they start from the basics but you should know some basic science. Medicine is heavily biology based so chemistry and physics won't help that much. HSC biology also doesn't help much but it may give you some decent foundations if you did searching for better health.

All medical schools in Australia should be equivalent however, if you want to practice overseas then go for the higher ranked unis.

After 2-3 years out of medicine you get into specialty training programs. Problem is there are too many graduates and in the future it will probably be delayed. I have known doctors who have waited 5 years. Anaesthetics waiting time for urban is minimum 5 years at the current time will probably increase in the future. If you work regional it is about 3 years atm.

Balancing work, life, social events is difficult when you do medicine. It is not impossible but you will have to make sacrifices.

Graduate pay is pretty good comparatively. After so many years of studying people always want more.

Prestige for doctors have decreased compared to the past as we move towards patient autonomy. Also don't forget the back talking belieber teens of today.

You will be in a good 50-60k debt after med school usually. Time to pay it off varies with how much you earn and how much you want to pay off.

 

[Medman]

Nope. You should know some basic sciences and they assume that, but it's nothing you can't learn in a few hours, which you should get used to because med is all about learning entire subjects in one or two hours.
Other courses: Learn some immunology as 1 of 4 subjects each semester for 4 semesters.
Med: Learn all of immunology in 1 to 4 lectures.

Medicine is superficial you do not learn all of immunology in 1-4 lectures. I did immunology for 1 semester and it was hell of a lot more in depth and they required me to memorise a lot more knowledge than compared to immunology in medicine.

 

[kietkiet]

First year medicine they start from the basics but you should know some basic science. Medicine is heavily biology based so chemistry and physics won't help that much. HSC biology also doesn't help much but it may give you some decent foundations if you did searching for better health.

What would you say to be more benfitical ? Do a Bridging Course or just buy a HSC Bio textbook or something ?

T

Thanks dude, I was hoping you'll see my thread and pass on wisdom haha.

Two more questions:
1) Do I need a Bach. Surgery to become a Surgeon ? Or will a Bach. Medicine be enough ? I don't really know how that works.
2) Do all med students study the same subjects and then branch off into their own interests during a Bach. Med ? If so, when do you start learning the fields you're interested in.

 

[Riproot]

First year medicine they start from the basics but you should know some basic science. Medicine is heavily biology based so chemistry and physics won't help that much. HSC biology also doesn't help much but it may give you some decent foundations if you did searching for better health.

I have found Chemistry very helpful actually. Esp. with pharmacology and biochemistry.
(Everyone does SFBH in HSC Biology, it's not optional :/ )

Prestige for doctors have decreased compared to the past as we move towards patient autonomy. Also don't forget the back talking belieber teens of today.

UGH.
Typical comment.

Medicine is superficial you do not learn all of immunology in 1-4 lectures. I did immunology for 1 semester and it was hell of a lot more in depth and they required me to memorise a lot more knowledge than compared to immunology in medicine.

Well, I know the immunology we ~learned~ this year was not the immunology we were able to be tested on.
Like, we ~learned~ superficial stuff, but we were able to be test on really specific stuff. More specific than what my friend doing second year immuno at USyd got tested on.
BUT it only came up as like 2 marks, thank god.

What would you say to be more benfitical ? Do a Bridging Course or just buy a HSC Bio textbook or something ?

Neither.
A lot of people do med without a background in biology
They'll teach you everything you need to know
If you're smart enough to get in and you work hard you'll be smart enough to pick things up

Thanks dude, I was hoping you'll see my thread and pass on wisdom haha.

Two more questions:
1) Do I need a Bach. Surgery to become a Surgeon ? Or will a Bach. Medicine be enough ? I don't really know how that works.
2) Do all med students study the same subjects and then branch off into their own interests during a Bach. Med ? If so, when do you start learning the fields you're interested in.

1) All Medical degrees in Australia are seen as the same. So Bachelor of Medicine from UNCLE is on par with a MBBS from UWS, which is on par with Doctor of Medicine from USyd. (but a Masters degree (MD) is a higher level qualification, but medically speaking they will allow you to do the same thing)
2) All students do the same things pretty much, but in the clinical years (3rd-5th at UWS) you do rotations and your rotations may differ to other students'. But you don't actually start doing your specific thing until like 2 years after you graduate, everyone does basically the same things until then.

 

[Kiraken]

I have found Chemistry very helpful actually. Esp. with pharmacology and biochemistry.
(Everyone does SFBH in HSC Biology, it's not optional :/ )

UGH.
Typical comment.

Well, I know the immunology we ~learned~ this year was not the immunology we were able to be tested on.
Like, we ~learned~ superficial stuff, but we were able to be test on really specific stuff. More specific than what my friend doing second year immuno at USyd got tested on.
BUT it only came up as like 2 marks, thank god.

Neither.
A lot of people do med without a background in biology
They'll teach you everything you need to know
If you're smart enough to get in and you work hard you'll be smart enough to pick things up

1) All Medical degrees in Australia are seen as the same. So Bachelor of Medicine from UNCLE is on par with a MBBS from UWS, which is on par with Doctor of Medicine from USyd. (but a Masters degree (MD) is a higher level qualification, but medically speaking they will allow you to do the same thing)
2) All students do the same things pretty much, but in the clinical years (3rd-5th at UWS) you do rotations and your rotations may differ to other students'. But you don't actually start doing your specific thing until like 2 years after you graduate, everyone does basically the same things until then.

Spot on post

In terms of immunology you will go into quite a bit of depth next year anyway

On the note of prestige lol you seriously should not care, it would be the last thing on your mind when performing a DRE

 

[Riproot]

Spot on post

In terms of immunology you will go into quite a bit of depth next year anyway

On the note of prestige lol you seriously should not care, it would be the last thing on your mind when performing a DRE

hahaha, omg
(filmed a mad segment on DREs for medrevue this year, but it will be in next years, plz come, sassy gay doctor is now a yearly thing until i graduate)

 

[Medman]

I have found Chemistry very helpful actually. Esp. with pharmacology and biochemistry.
(Everyone does SFBH in HSC Biology, it's not optional :/ )

Whoops lol it's been a while since I revisited biology. With regards to chemistry yes I do agree it does help with pharmacology and biochemistry but being in my clinical years you don't need to know pharmacology or biochemistry in depth.

Perhaps UWS course is a different on immunology when I studied immunology in second year we learnt a hell of a lot more than what we were taught in my 3 years of med school.

Grad pay is actually around 65k across the board for interns this year from memory (this will rise slowly over time so when you graduate it will probably be 70k+). This does not include overtime as Riproot said.

Prestige has decreased though, in the past doctors told patients what to do. Nowadays, it's patient centered one treatment will not work out for another patient due to preferences in lifestyle and their end goal. Younger medical students or students aspiring to be medicine need to be aware of this issue. Although, you may think it is best for your patient to take a certain treatment you as a doctor don't make the final decision for them.You only realise this when you have more exposure to clinics. That being said people still do respect you for your intellect and your people skills (on the most part) but it shouldn't be something you should take into great consideration when deciding to do medicine.

DRE's aren't that bad. I don't mind doing it seriously I don't know what's the fuss. I've done about 5 already.

 

[kietkiet]

More Noob Questions:

1- What's DRE ? hahah
2- Are Biomed job prospects in Australia good ? What do they do typically ?
3- To become a Radiologist, what degree do you need ? A Bach. Medicine or Bach. Medical Radiation Science (Diagnostic Radiography) [Newcastle degree] ?

 

[Medman]

1. DRE = Digital Rectal Exam
2. Not sure but my friend did engineering and biomed took a while to find a job.
3. Radiologist is a specialist who interprets radiographs. You need to complete a Medical degree before applying for specialization training. Radiographers are the people who take the images which is medical radiation science from my knowledge.

 

[Riproot]

Prestige has decreased though, in the past doctors told patients what to do. Nowadays, it's patient centred one treatment will not work out for another patient due to preferences in lifestyle and their end goal. Younger medical students or students aspiring to be medicine need to be aware of this issue. Although, you may think it is best for your patient to take a certain treatment you as a doctor don't make the final decision for them.You only realise this when you have more exposure to clinics. That being said people still do respect you for your intellect and your people skills (on the most part) but it shouldn't be something you should take into great consideration when deciding to do medicine.

DRE's aren't that bad. I don't mind doing it seriously I don't know what's the fuss. I've done about 5 already.

Prestige isn't really about you controlling other people's lives though.
Also, patient autonomy is good ~~~

Also, the point of the DRE reference was to be all like "wow, look at how prestigious and successful doctor I am, whilst my finger is up your bum feeling 'round fo poop!"

1. DRE = Digital Rectal Exam
2. Not sure but my friend did engineering and biomed took a while to find a job.
3. Radiologist is a specialist who interprets radiographs. You need to complete a Medical degree before applying for specialization training. Radiographers are the people who take the images which is medical radiation science from my knowledge.

These are fine but also
1. You stick your finger up the patient's bum. ~~~
2. Yeah, no fucking idea.
3. Radiographers can get Bachelor of Medical Radiation Science (Medical Imaging) or Master of Diagnostic Radiography. Maybe others ~~~

 

[Medman]

Prestige was more in the past as people respected doctors more. Nowadays, only the baby boomers seem to have that respect for doctors. The younger generation do not have the same attitude towards doctors. They tend to respect professionals who succeed in jobs such as IT, graphics design etc. In the end you have to balance what you want with a need to survive.

 

[kietkiet]

The UMAT is in July and I haven't apply for it yet due to some financial difficulties.

What would be a good time to start preparing for the UMAT ? And Is there a free or cheap way of preparing ?

 

[Medman]

Start prepping now. Start working and buy the materials privately.

 

[AB940]

The UMAT is in July and I haven't apply for it yet due to some financial difficulties.

What would be a good time to start preparing for the UMAT ? And Is there a free or cheap way of preparing ?

I didn't do a paid prep course. I just trawled the internet for any free papers I could find and if I had my time again, I'd probably still do that, but I'd go about it in a completely different way.
Familiarise yourself with the question format as much as you possibly can, because it's a very ambiguous exam and, if you went in with absolutely no idea what it was going to be about (as people used to do in the past) you would be at a huge disadvantage.
I would suggest at first working through the questions as slowly as you need at first, so you can understand the process of answering questions across all three sections. Section 1 requires you to process a lot of written information. They will often throw in a lot of scientific terms to make it look confusing, but if you stripped all that away you would be left with something pretty simple like "all As are Bs, some Bs are Cs, it therefore follows that...". These kinds of questions are featured on HEAPS of similar university entrance exams, including the GAMSAT, and the LSAT. So, look up free preparation materials for both of those, and you will have heaps of extra (free) materials to practise with.
For section 2, definitely brush up your vocabulary. I (stupidly) ignored this advice and found myself very stumped on the day when I came across words I didn't know the meaning of. And section 3, do as many non-verbal puzzles as you can. They don't have to be UMAT preparation specifically. A lot of people say Mensa books are really helpful. I never used one, but I can imagine that the kind of puzzles would be quite similar.

I guess if you wanted a cheaper way of preparing, you could buy someone else's old notes. A lot of people on this site sell their preparation materials for a fraction of the price of some of the really expensive preparation courses like medentry (which seems to help some people but a lot wouldn't recommend it).

I recommend you start as soon as you can because like I said, getting familiar with the questions is a very good idea.