getting 99.95.... (2 Viewers)

[mreditor16]

Not sure where to post this thread. But anyways:

So I was surfing BOS and found this post by flashtrick, who was talking to Triage about Triage's aim of 99.95.

I think it's admirable that you've decided to truly dedicate yourself towards a goal. A lot of people casually say they're 'aiming for 99.95' but it's clear it's said for conversation's sake rather than earnest. From your few posts, I don't think you fit into that category of people. I for one hardly did any work during any of the holidays in Year 12 [except for the break right before the HSC], but here you are blasting away, haha.

Here's a question that you have to ask yourself:
Why? What reason do you need 99.95?

Diminishing returns kicks in when your ATAR approaches 99.95. It's quite easy to hit 99+ ATAR without doing much work, but aiming for 99.95 is another story. At 99.95, you have to prepare yourself for circumstance and remove as much chance as possible. This implies that you MUST COVER EVERYTHING.

Covering everything thoroughly is an enormous commitment. If you truly follow through with it, you will make sacrifices in other aspects of your life. Social. Emotional. Spiritual, even. All your growth will be academically geared. Unfortunately, that is the only path to aiming for 99.95 ATAR, achieving it, and saying that 'this percentile is representative of my efforts, and not of chance and circumstance.'

In Year 12, many students turn 18. They start to mature as people. They learn about life, people, who they are and values they might hold for the rest of their lives. Aiming for 99.95 will restrict most of your learning to the textbook form.

I'm not trying to deter you from your aim. Just make sure you can ask yourself why and answer confidently, knowing fully well the implications of such a pursuit.

So simply put, the post really got me thinking especially the bolded parts, which I largely agree with. So what do you guys think?

 

[seventhroot]

imo, 99.95 isn't even necessary for anything. just do what you want to do

 

[RivalryofTroll]

imo, 99.95 isn't even necessary for anything. just do what you want to do

UNSW Scientia and USYD's version of it?

 

[mreditor16]

imo, 99.95 isn't even necessary for anything. just do what you want to do

lol I know that. I'm asking about opinions regarding quoted post.

 

[mreditor16]

UNSW Scientia and USYD's version of it?

haha true!

 

[Futuremedstudent]

UNSW Scientia and USYD's version of it?

and dual degrees for med @usyd

 

[Speed6]

James Ruse Agricultural High School

Quote from their website:

Our school regularly has students who obtain the highest possible HSC ranking (99.95 ATAR).

The 2013 HSC cohort once again achieved fabulous success with 6 students received the highest ATAR of 99.95: Gary Xu, Niroshan Jeyakumar, Steven Luu , Michael Hong, Sumedh Jayanti and David Hu. Three students achieved 1st in the NSW in their subject area; Sing Young Chen in Biology, Dana Song in Agriculture and Radman Zhang in Mathematics. It is lovely to see the Mullavey Shield return home.

Students achieved state rankings across a large number of subjects including Agriculture, Biology, Chemistry, Drama, Mathematics, Mathematics Extension 1, Mathematics Extension 2, Physics and Visual Arts. Two students, Ben Chen and Elaine Dong, had their work selected for Art Express. Two students have been asked to participate in the Drama Showcase Onstage – Robyn Lu and Jack Zhong. Keith Yang and Eugene Wang were also nominated for Encore. Rarely have we seen such success across a range of subjects.

But anyway you can still achieve 99.95 without even going to Ruse or even the top 10 ranked schools.

 

[Futuremedstudent]

James Ruse Agricultural High School

Quote from their website:

Our school regularly has students who obtain the highest possible HSC ranking (99.95 ATAR).

The 2013 HSC cohort once again achieved fabulous success with 6 students received the highest ATAR of 99.95: Gary Xu, Niroshan Jeyakumar, Steven Luu , Michael Hong, Sumedh Jayanti and David Hu. Three students achieved 1st in the NSW in their subject area; Sing Young Chen in Biology, Dana Song in Agriculture and Radman Zhang in Mathematics. It is lovely to see the Mullavey Shield return home.

Students achieved state rankings across a large number of subjects including Agriculture, Biology, Chemistry, Drama, Mathematics, Mathematics Extension 1, Mathematics Extension 2, Physics and Visual Arts. Two students, Ben Chen and Elaine Dong, had their work selected for Art Express. Two students have been asked to participate in the Drama Showcase Onstage – Robyn Lu and Jack Zhong. Keith Yang and Eugene Wang were also nominated for Encore. Rarely have we seen such success across a range of subjects.

But anyway you can still achieve 99.95 without even going to Ruse or even the top 10 ranked schools.

yeah i know 2 people who went to a school ranked 16th and got 99.95 last year. (they don't go to my school)

 

[RivalryofTroll]

1. Diminishing returns kicks in when your ATAR approaches 99.95. It's quite easy to hit 99+ ATAR without doing much work, but aiming for 99.95 is another story. At 99.95, you have to prepare yourself for circumstance and remove as much chance as possible. This implies that you MUST COVER EVERYTHING.

I agree about the ''diminishing returns'' idea. Practically, as soon as you start going over 98 or 99, the amount of extra work you do starts to see a smaller incremental increase in your potential ATAR.

No, it's not ''easy'' to hit 99+ ATAR without doing much work. Even those who are incredibly gifted (naturally) in academics will not hit 99+ if they don't do anything.
Case in point? Not every James Ruse kid will get 99+ and these students are the most naturally gifted in the state (why? Because the Year 6 selective test is more of a measure of natural aptitude in my view).

Yes, you have to cover everything (well to a humanely possible extent - depends on your memorisation capabilities for preparation and critical thinking abilities for on the exam day, whereby critical thinking ability = more 'natural' than can be trained.).

From my perspective, ''getting 99.95'' is EVEN MORE about chance and luck (i.e. no bombing out in any exam, having multiple good exam days, questions that suit you and your preparation, etc.). Additionally, it requires one to be academically naturally gifted in most cases (you either have such luck to be gifted or you don't?). It's the harsh truth.

2. If you truly follow through with it, you will make sacrifices in other aspects of your life. Social. Emotional. Spiritual, even. All your growth will be academically geared.

Yes and no.

Depends on your natural aptitude for academics.

If you're gifted, you can afford to have 'less' preparation - thus, allowing you to make less sacrifices in terms of other aspects of your life.

If you're not gifted then you'll need to compensate by essentially, working your butt off - hence, you have no choice but to make such sacrifices.

Harsh truth once again.

3. In Year 12, many students turn 18. They start to mature as people. They learn about life, people, who they are and values they might hold for the rest of their lives. Aiming for 99.95 will restrict most of your learning to the textbook form.

This is just massive generalisation.

Depends on the student in the end.

I mean there are 99.95ers out there who are not limited to their ''textbook knowledge'' and are very well-rounded.

Then there's also 99.95ers out there who are limited to their ''studies'' and thus, lack this well-roundness.

Final thought(s)

I'm not trying to crush people's hopes but I do believe that you need to be academically gifted to a good extent if you want ''99.95''. Some people aiming for 99.95 aren't cut out for it. No matter how hard they study or try, they might not even come close.

However, I feel that I was a not so gifted student (in terms of academics) and I think I did alright (certainly beyond my expectations and others' expectations) so who knows? Then again, even if I tried any harder - something like 99.95 is definitely out of my reach in my honest opinion.

It can be good to have high aims/expectations (I mean for some people, it turns them into a motivated monster - in a good way that is) but don't let it overwhelm you. More importantly, stay realistic. Not everyone can get 99.95.

 

[Futuremedstudent]

I think up to 99.6-7 is achievable by anyone who has the following combination: some amount of brains (like the ability to string words together kind of thing), decent internal rankings (so hard work over the year), thorough knowledge of the syllabus and practice and familiarity with exam questions and style.

I reckon after 99.7 you get to a point where things start moving more from hard work to chance. That's because the ATAR is a percentile, and as a result its a bell curve. In the end its probably only a few marks that distinguishes the student who gets 99.95 to the student who gets 99.7, but these few marks will obviously be really crucial for someone aiming for that kind of goal.

In this example, both students (i.e. the student who got 99.7 and the student who got 99.95) are likely to be top students. But so much relies on chance! What if the very last question on an exam threw the 99.7 student off, but not for the 99.95? Or if the 99.7 student had many successive exams or multiple exams in a day, and that impacted on their performance (like say you have English paper 2 with a humanities subject and it would be like gg hand cramps). So much comes down to chance after that, like performance on the day, particular questions on the paper, exam timetable etc

A while ago I asked my friend how she got 99.95 last year. She told me how it was definitely a lot of hard work (plus she's really intelligent) but in the end, she managed to get the final few marks that other high-performing students couldn't because of some additional practice (definitely), but also luck. She had a great timetable, no hassles and was well prepared for everything And she was really surprised because she had practiced in such a way that the papers suited her efforts, compared to her friend who'd done just as much as her but only got 99.85 because of a few marks lost in 4u maths

but what would I know LOL those are such big numbers

sames idea as coming first in the state for a subject!

 

[RivalryofTroll]

1. Diminishing returns kicks in when your ATAR approaches 99.95. It's quite easy to hit 99+ ATAR without doing much work, but aiming for 99.95 is another story. At 99.95, you have to prepare yourself for circumstance and remove as much chance as possible. This implies that you MUST COVER EVERYTHING.

I agree about the ''diminishing returns'' idea. Practically, as soon as you start going over 98 or 99, the amount of extra work you do starts to see a smaller incremental increase in your potential ATAR.

No, it's not ''easy'' to hit 99+ ATAR without doing much work. Even those who are incredibly gifted (naturally) in academics will not hit 99+ if they don't do anything.
Case in point? Not every James Ruse kid will get 99+ and these students are the most naturally gifted in the state (why? Because the Year 6 selective test is more of a measure of natural aptitude in my view).

Yes, you have to cover everything (well to a humanely possible extent - depends on your memorisation capabilities for preparation and critical thinking abilities for on the exam day, whereby critical thinking ability = more 'natural' than can be trained.).

From my perspective, ''getting 99.95'' is EVEN MORE about chance and luck (i.e. no bombing out in any exam, having multiple good exam days, questions that suit you and your preparation, etc.). Additionally, it requires one to be academically naturally gifted in most cases (you either have such luck to be gifted or you don't?). It's the harsh truth.

2. If you truly follow through with it, you will make sacrifices in other aspects of your life. Social. Emotional. Spiritual, even. All your growth will be academically geared.

Yes and no.

Depends on your natural aptitude for academics.

If you're gifted, you can afford to have 'less' preparation - thus, allowing you to make less sacrifices in terms of other aspects of your life.

If you're not gifted then you'll need to compensate by essentially, working your butt off - hence, you have no choice but to make such sacrifices.

Harsh truth once again.

3. In Year 12, many students turn 18. They start to mature as people. They learn about life, people, who they are and values they might hold for the rest of their lives. Aiming for 99.95 will restrict most of your learning to the textbook form.

This is just massive generalisation.

Depends on the student in the end.

I mean there are 99.95ers out there who are not limited to their ''textbook knowledge'' and are very well-rounded.

Then there's also 99.95ers out there who are limited to their ''studies'' and thus, lack this well-roundness.

Final thought(s)

I'm not trying to crush people's hopes but I do believe that you need to be academically gifted to a good extent if you want ''99.95''. Some people aiming for 99.95 aren't cut out for it. No matter how hard they study or try, they might not even come close.

However, I feel that I was a not so gifted student (in terms of academics) and I think I did alright (certainly beyond my expectations and others' expectations) so who knows? Then again, even if I tried any harder - something like 99.95 is definitely out of my reach in my honest opinion.

It can be good to have high aims/expectations (I mean for some people, it turns them into a motivated monster - in a good way that is) but don't let it overwhelm you. More importantly, stay realistic. Not everyone can get 99.95.

For those less gifted/talented, yet hard-working, students aiming for 99.95 who want to prove me wrong...

Please feel free to do so (I can actually relate to you guys)

 

[RivalryofTroll]

It definitely depends on the individual, and also to an extent their natural ability. Though Rot, I have to disagree with you in terms of 'natural intelligence' because in the end the HSC is majorly about roting and memorising and someone with great mental prowess could have a poor memory and not so great work ethic, hence hindering their performance. So maybe natural mental ability + some degree of intelligence?

Yes, I agree.

I mean I was one of those people who relied on 'work ethic' and 'rote/memorisation' (feeling that I was not the most gifted student) - and yeah, I exceeded my own expectations. So I definitely can relate to this statement.

However, I still think 99.95 is a different story to 99+

Work ethic and 'some degree of intelligence' (perhaps even work ethic alone at times) can allow one to hit 99+, no doubt.

However, 99.95 requires both work ethic and definitely, a good or even strong degree of natural aptitude. The competition you face will all have 'work ethic' available to them (I'm aware that not everyone will utilise it - i.e. work hard - but my point still stands) but not everyone will have 'natural ability' available to them.

Since ATAR is a rank and you have to be among the very very best - you'll need a strong degree of gifted-ness to come out on top (i.e. talent allows you to attain a competitive advantage over those who work just as hard as you).

And of course, luck is another factor.

 

[Futuremedstudent]

Pretty much agree with everything you said. In the end there is a serious 'diminishing returns' factor, I reckon that starts as soon as ATAR approaches 98 actually (lol this sounds like a limits question... "as t approaches infinity, what is x?" haha)

It definitely depends on the individual, and also to an extent their natural ability. Though Rot, I have to disagree with you in terms of 'natural intelligence' because in the end the HSC is majorly about roting and memorising and someone with great mental prowess could have a poor memory and not so great work ethic, hence hindering their performance. So maybe natural mental ability + some degree of intelligence?



But in this situation you're more likely to know where you stand, so I don't think its the exact same

so a person who comes first in a school in the 600's will come first in the state????

 

[Futuremedstudent]

Yes, I agree.

I mean I was one of those people who relied on 'work ethic' and 'rote/memorisation' (feeling that I was not the most gifted student) - and yeah, I exceeded my own expectations. So I definitely can relate to this statement.

However, I still think 99.95 is a different story to 99+

Work ethic and 'some degree of intelligence' (perhaps even work ethic alone at times) can allow one to hit 99+, no doubt.

However, 99.95 requires both work ethic and definitely, a good or even strong degree of natural aptitude. The competition you face will all have 'work ethic' available to them (I'm aware that not everyone will utilise it - i.e. work hard - but my point still stands) but not everyone will have 'natural ability' available to them.

Since ATAR is a rank and you have to be among the very very best - you'll need a strong degree of gifted-ness to come out on top (i.e. talent allows you to attain a competitive advantage over those who work just as hard as you).

And of course, luck is another factor.

what do you mean by natural ability??

 

[seventhroot]

what do you mean by natural ability??

asian

 

[Futuremedstudent]

asian

lol the chick who got 99.95 from my school was white.

 

[seventhroot]

lol the chick who got 99.95 from my school was white.

one white chick, a gazillion asians......

 

[Speed6]

one white chick, a gazillion asians......

azn inflation lel.

 

[Futuremedstudent]

one white chick, a gazillion asians......

yeah she did like latin extension, history extension and 4U english...

 

[Futuremedstudent]

Not true. What I meant that 99.95 is a more variable rank and requires persistent effort across all subjects + luck + intelligence as has already been established. So many people can become deluded by ranking top in all their subjects at their school (regardless of school rank) and becoming convinced that they're going to get the .95 . But to get a state rank, you would most likely (hopefully) have a better idea of where you stand. Coming first internally (or maybe in top 10 depending on the subject and how high your school is ranked) can pretty much put you at halfway there. After that, its a matter of beating everyone else who's done just as well as you internally. So naturally, you would have more of an idea of your own ability as compared to someone in a school ranked in the 800s who's coming 5th in all their subjects and aiming for 99.95, because then that's got very low chance.

From what I've observed, a lot of the state rankers have had great internal ranks throughout the year, then have gone on to smash externals as well, as opposed to most people who've focused on one or the other

thanks