the 2 aussies getting execuated in Indonesia (3 Viewers)

[Drongoski]

Every life is of value.

What about the thousands whose lives would be ruined had their drugs found their way into the streets here? Western countries are very permissive towards the use of drugs. Even calling some categories "recreational".

We can argue till the cows come home. Different societies will have different attitudes towards drug trafficking and what to do with those caught dealing in them. Won't solve anything.

 

[Queenroot]

What about the thousands whose lives would be ruined? Western countries are very permissive towards the use of drugs. Even calling some categories "recreational".

Lives ruined by who?

 

[Schmeag]

What about the thousands whose lives would be ruined had their drugs found their way into the streets here? Western countries are very permissive towards the use of drugs. Even calling some categories "recreational".

Of worldwide substance-related abuse, alcohol and smoking are by far the greatest contributors to morbidity and mortality as far as I am aware.

 

[Queenroot]

What about the thousands whose lives would be ruined had their drugs found their way into the streets here? Western countries are very permissive towards the use of drugs. Even calling some categories "recreational".

We can argue till the cows come home. Different societies will have different attitudes towards drug trafficking and what to do with those caught dealing in them. Won't solve anything.

Okay thankyou for the edit.

What I said has nothing to do with letting them go free.

If the drugs found their way here, yes, people would have lost lives. But it is not about what could've happened or would've happened. It is that they did get caught, they were rehabilitated and their drugs were seized and destroyed (not sure about rumours of Indonesian police selling them but tbh wouldn't be surprised). Regardless their death wouldn't solve anything, it's fear mongering.

If it helps, I personally know quite a few people who were drug abusers and weren't forced into doing it.
The AFP honestly just needs a better method of monitoring and controlling drug syndicates.

Discussion leads to change, if anything, it is important to talk about such issues.

 

[Drongoski]

Of worldwide substance-related abuse, alcohol and smoking are by far the greatest contributors to morbidity and mortality as far as I am aware.

I've seen this type of argument many times. Logic seems to be: A is worse than B; B is legal, so why not A or why is A not OK? To those who support such logic, or are sympathetic to drug taking, let me say: good luck. Enjoy yourself. It is your choice. You are the smart, thinking one. Always ready with a good answer.

 

[isildurrrr1]

I actually haven't bothered to follow the issue all that much, but originally I thought it was for something quite recent lol.

It wouldn't make sense though why AFP wouldn't mind to hand them over, then the PM tries to get them back with such methods.

PM is trying to woo the electorate and appear that he's 'saving' Australians. You should hear the shit they say when the camera's are off. Same with 7 news crew when they stop broadcast, they start making jokes on who'll get shot first etc.

The AFP did it because of the cooperation we have with indonesian policing. Now there's an act of parliament preventing AFP from cooperating with countries that have capital punishment when it involves australians committing crimes that would be eligible for those senteces. They have helped us A LOT in counter-terror issues. We didn't make a fuss when they executed the people we wanted to capture. The bali 9 duo got death because they were seen as ring leaders of the group. Other's got 20 years or life sentences.

 

[isildurrrr1]

Okay thankyou for the edit.

What I said has nothing to do with letting them go free.

If the drugs found their way here, yes, people would have lost lives. But it is not about what could've happened or would've happened. It is that they did get caught, they were rehabilitated and their drugs were seized and destroyed (not sure about rumours of Indonesian police selling them but tbh wouldn't be surprised). Regardless their death wouldn't solve anything, it's fear mongering.

If it helps, I personally know quite a few people who were drug abusers and weren't forced into doing it.
The AFP honestly just needs a better method of monitoring and controlling drug syndicates.

Discussion leads to change, if anything, it is important to talk about such issues.

The Indonesians only knew about it because of an AFP tip off. Chan and surkiwahtever weren't even on their radar and their existence were unknown until they were caught. AFP could have let them fly back to aus and arrest them on the border but we let the indonesians arrest them over yonder.

 

[Schmeag]

I've seen this type of argument many times. Logic seems to be: A is worse than B; B is legal, so why not A or why is A not OK? To those who support such logic, or are sympathetic to drug taking, let me say: good luck. Enjoy yourself. It is your choice. You are the smart, thinking one. Always ready with a good answer.

I agree that two wrongs don't make a right. I simply made a statement. It was you who drew the above conclusion.

 

[Drongoski]

I agree that two wrongs don't make a right. I simply made a statement. It was you who drew the above conclusion.

I'm not referring to your post specifically.

I've noted over the years arguments for and against on many issues. Western thinking is often different from non-Western thinking. I hold a very conservative view (medieval?). We, especially in the free world, have a choice: to drink or not to drink, to smoke or not to smoke, to self-inject or not to, to spot a tattoo or not to, . . . . As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

 

[Queenroot]

The Indonesians only knew about it because of an AFP tip off. Chan and surkiwahtever weren't even on their radar and their existence were unknown until they were caught. AFP could have let them fly back to aus and arrest them on the border but we let the indonesians arrest them over yonder.

Yeah I'm aware of this. Not the smartest move on AFP's behalf.

 

[isildurrrr1]

Yeah I'm aware of this. Not the smartest move on AFP's behalf.

No it's the right move. I would say the policy standpoint of having very cooperative policing with indonesia is very important. You don't want to selectively decide what you pass on, it's not acting in good faith.

To be honest the people the AFP tipped the indo's off didn't get death, so there's a silver lining to it.

 

[domonique]

Some food for thought:
"The Institute for Policy Analysis of Conflict reports that around 100 extremists, especially those involved in the 2002 Kuta bombings and the subsequent 2005 bombings in Jimbaran and Kuta, which killed 20 people, including four Australians and injured 129, including 19 Australians, have been released."

 

[D94]

What about the thousands whose lives would be ruined had their drugs found their way into the streets here? Western countries are very permissive towards the use of drugs. Even calling some categories "recreational".

We can argue till the cows come home. Different societies will have different attitudes towards drug trafficking and what to do with those caught dealing in them. Won't solve anything.

And whose choice is it to use those drugs?

 

[Queenroot]

No it's the right move. I would say the policy standpoint of having very cooperative policing with indonesia is very important. You don't want to selectively decide what you pass on, it's not acting in good faith.

To be honest the people the AFP tipped the indo's off didn't get death, so there's a silver lining to it.

I guess they may not have foreseen this coming but what I'm trying to say is that they should have caught them in Australia before anything happened.

 

[Kiraken]

So called innocent people who get addicted to those drugs, made a conscious decision to take those drugs. It doesn't matter if they had access to the drugs because of smugglers - I can easily get a gun license and a gun, but it wouldn't be the fault of the dealer if I went on a killing spree. Drugs sitting idle on a table isn't going to ruin my life.

Drug smuggling is a non-violent crime. It should not be on the same level or even above the level of murder. Three convicted murderers in Indonesia were given clemency. Jokowi must be high on drugs...

this oversimplifies the situation and neglects the fact that drug smuggling targets a vulnerable part of society and ruins lives even further.

The issue of choice becomes blurred when you take into account the concept of addiction, especially when it comes to drugs like heroin which is why countries all around the world, including Australia, have life sentences if you smuggle beyond a certain amount of heroin/crystal meth/any other hardcore drug. They would have gotten a life sentence here too precisely because it is a severe crime.

Whether or not it is on par with murder is therefore not a claim you can objectively make, what is relevant however is that the death penalty itself is an outdated and illogical concept

 

[madboy1125]

The two individuals knew of what they were up against. They were sneaking drugs. That can result in the death penalty in many countries. If some countries didn't have strict rules. They would never progress. An example would be Singapore. They have very strict laws and they are doing well...

I vote that the death penalty should be used in the cases of murder, arms trafficking, and drugs. These things can be used to kill and will be used to kill, the death penalty is merely a method of preventing

 

[Kiraken]

The two individuals knew of what they were up against. They were sneaking drugs. That can result in the death penalty in many countries. If some countries didn't have strict rules. They would never progress. An example would be Singapore. They have very strict laws and they are doing well...

I vote that the death penalty should be used in the cases of murder, arms trafficking, and drugs. These things can be used to kill and will be used to kill, the death penalty is merely a method of preventing

We don't have the death penalty and saudi arabia does

Tell me which country has "progressed" more

 

[Hardworking Knt]

The death penalty shouldn't even exist, it achieves nothing, drug trade will continue regardless of how many are executed, killing individuals doesn't solve the problem. Indonesia needs to get out of the dark ages and get rid of it.

 

[wannaspoon]

The death penalty shouldn't even exist, it achieves nothing, drug trade will continue regardless of how many are executed, killing individuals doesn't solve the problem. Indonesia needs to get out of the dark ages and get rid of it.

Well it did get two drug traffickers off this planet...

 

[astroman]

Can someone explain the thing about the spirt guides?