2007 Federal Election - Coalition or Labor/Howard or Rudd? (2 Viewers)

[koube0530]

I think that Kevin Rudd's a great person- a man who's really got the qualities of a leader to lead this country. Both of you will just have to wait patiently till later this year.

Agreed. Howard should have been long gone. I'm looking forward to seeing him lose his seat.

 

[jb_nc]

Agreed. Howard should have been long gone. I'm looking forward to seeing him lose his seat.

Doubtful. Last election, Andrew Wilkie, the ASIO whistle-blower ran for the Greens. He was as high profile as, say, Peter Garett, was last elections in the constituency itself (I used to live there). That netted Labor a swag of preferences from the Greens of about 14 per cent. Labor vote declined from 2001 to 2004.

I think Howard won 49.9 per cent of the vote before preferences. McKew won't get the 4 per cent swing but will probably take in a few percentage points and take the set when Howard retires. Thus Bennelong will become a Labor seat. It went from the Lower North Shore with Wollstonecraft, Gladesville, Hunters Hill and Lane Cove to a predominantly working class area with a remnant of its former self when Howard won in the 70s with only Gladesville and a few other small areas remaining.

I am probably in a better position than most to comment as I lived there and still live close by.

 

[Iron]

Re: 2007 Federal Election - Coalition or Labor/Howard or Beazley?

Another good story, Menzies in about the 1970s, late in his life, wrote to the deputy of the Queensland Liberal party and said, "as long as the ABC continues to broadcast, the Labor party needs no propaganda wing."

I lol'd.

NOTE: I don't think the ABC is filled with lefties.

Old feed-bag could, and frequently did, down 3 steak dinners and two bottles of wine in one sitting.

THis manly gossip could go on, and probably merits a thread for such purposes.

 

[ZabZu]

It went from the Lower North Shore with Wollstonecraft, Gladesville, Hunters Hill and Lane Cove to a predominantly working class area with a remnant of its former self when Howard won in the 70s with only Gladesville and a few other small areas remaining.

Ive been to various suburbs throughout the Bennelong electorate. I dont agree that the area is mostly working class. Suburbs such as Epping, Ryde, Marsfield and Gladesville are farely affluent.

 

[jb_nc]

Ive been to various suburbs throughout the Bennelong electorate. I dont agree that the area is mostly working class. Suburbs such as Epping, Ryde, Marsfield and Gladesville are farely affluent.

Gladesville, yes. That's why I said "Gladesville and a few small areas remaining" Riverside suburb and close to Hunters Hill. Marsfield, yes. Not so much Ryde or Epping. That's IMO. But I digress. Ryde is full of immigrants too. First-generation Asian immigrants probably tend towards Howard and the Italian community Labor which are large in Ryde.

I kinda meant shifting more towards Parramatta.

 

[jb_nc]

Re: 2007 Federal Election - Coalition or Labor/Howard or Beazley?

Old feed-bag could, and frequently did, down 3 steak dinners and two bottles of wine in one sitting.

THis manly gossip could go on, and probably merits a thread for such purposes.

A true Australian... Well a true Australian with an unquenchable lust for all things Britannia.

 

[Sparcod]

Children's IR kit 'Labor propaganda'

A KIT for children explaining the Government's industrial relations laws is Labor Party propaganda, Workplace Relations Minister Joe Hockey says.

Yes, I do find it funny what the unions are doing here. I understand that the unions are trying to help the Labor win the support from high-school students.

I don't know what the unions' viewpoint is but I think that they feel that students are quite concerned for their parents' rights at work and also some students may be entering the workplace themselves (and hence they may be the most 'mistreated' workers due to their age and inexperience). I'm guessing that that's their viewpoint.

Students indeed need to be taught about workplace laws (but not in the wrong way). Yes, Joe Hockey, it may be Labor propaganda but it's not much better nor worse than a Coalition IR kit.

 

[Raginsheep]

Can't be any worse than the terrorism fridge magnets

I never got mine

 

[bm86]

This idea that our involvement in the Iraq War has increased the risk to our national security is another attempt by many on the left to relate terrorist action as a derivative actions of the United States, and somehow hold the US responsible for the attacks that occur around the world.

New York and Bali each occurred prior the Iraq invasion, and terrorist success since has resoundingly failed. Terrorism is related to ideological and religious difference. Whilst some may believe that the war is 'intensifying' anti-west sentiments, national security in both the US and Australia has increased immensely, essentially nullifying the attempts of terrorists to undertake similar large scale attacks.

The Iraq war has increased the threat of terrorism:

Iraq has replaced Afghanistan as the training ground for the next generation of "professionalized" terrorists, according to a report released yesterday by the National Intelligence Council, the CIA director's think tank.

Iraq provides terrorists with "a training ground, a recruitment ground, the opportunity for enhancing technical skills," said David B. Low, the national intelligence officer for transnational threats. "There is even, under the best scenario, over time, the likelihood that some of the jihadists who are not killed there will, in a sense, go home, wherever home is, and will therefore disperse to various other countries." ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7460-2005Jan13.html

and the Bush administration was warned about the consequences of the Iraq war:

... the National Intelligence Council — issued an assessment warning that after Saddam was toppled, there was “a significant chance that domestic groups would engage in violent conflict with each other and that rogue Saddam loyalists would wage guerilla warfare either by themselves or in alliance with terrorists.” ...

... It also warned that “many angry young recruits” would fuel the rank of Islamic extremists and "Iraqi political culture is so embued with mores (opposed) to the democratic experience … that it may resist the most rigorous and prolonged democratic tutorials." ...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18854414

And its important to remember Bush administration did not take the threat of terrorism seriously before 911:

View MSNBC's pre 911 timeline:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP_o4qy_DxM

On January 25, 2001, five days after Mr. Bush took office, counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke sent Rice a memo, attaching to it a document entitled “Strategy for Eliminating the Threat from the Jihadist Networks of al-Qida” It was, Clarke, wrote, “developed by the last administration to give to you, incorporating diplomatic, economic, military, public diplomacy, and intelligence tools.”

Clarke’s memo requested a follow-up cabinet-level meeting to address time-sensitive questions about al Qaeda. But President Bush had downgraded counterterrorism from a cabinet-level job, so Clarke now dealt instead with deputy secretaries.

You can see the “Strategy for Eliminating the Threat from the Jihadist Networks of al-Qida” here:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB147/clarke%20attachment.pdf

Clarke’s deputies’ meeting came in April, when, he says, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz insisted the real terrorism threat was not al Qaeda, but Iraq.

By July 16, the deputies had a proposal for dealing with al Qaeda, a proposal, Clarke says, was essentially the same plan he gave Rice five months earlier, and it still had to go to the principals, the cabinet secretaries.

Clarke: "But the principals’ calendar was full, and then they went on vacation, many of them, in August, so we couldn’t meet in August. And therefore the principals met in September."

Although the principals had already met on other issues, their first meeting on al Qaeda was not until after Labor Day, on September 4, 2001.

Three days before President Bush took office Berger spoke at a passing-the-baton event, which Rice attended.

Sandy Berger (National Security Adviser): "With survivors of the U.S.S. Cole reinforced the reality that America is in a deadly struggle with a new breed of anti-Western jihadists. Nothing less than a war, I think, is fair to describe this."

Eight days later, Clarke sent Rice the strategy Clinton had developed for retaliating in the event that al Qaeda was found to have been behind the previous October’s attack on the U.S.S. Cole. The next day, the FBI conclusively pinned the Cole attack on al Qaeda.

Mr. Bush ordered no military strike, no escalation of existing Clinton measures. Instead, he repeated Clinton’s previous diplomatic efforts, writing a letter to Pakistani leader Pervez Musharraf in February and another on August 4.

The most famous warning came in the August 6 presidential daily briefing, reporting “patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.”

This report, entitled "Bin Laden determined to strike in US" can be viewed here:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/images/04/10/whitehouse.pdf

 

[Triangulum]

ACTU launching door-to-door campaign in marginal seats based on its computer database; Hockey describes this as (gasp!) an American tactic. Wayne Swan points out fairly that this is good coming from a party which used automated phone messages from the PM last election.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Just campaigning. I don't see why the coalition is bothering making a big fuss about it. Also dissapointing was what the ALP chose to focus on today during question time - some party at Kirribilli House. We have an opposition bitching about some function, and a government bitching about door knocking. Who gives a toss? At least it gave Costello a chance to have a bit of fun. That's always cool.

 

[withoutaface]

ACTU launching door-to-door campaign in marginal seats based on its computer database; Hockey describes this as (gasp!) an American tactic. Wayne Swan points out fairly that this is good coming from a party which used automated phone messages from the PM last election.

I thought union membership was <10%, and that those people were almost 100% certain to preference Labor over Coalition anyway?

 

[Sparcod]

Just campaigning. I don't see why the coalition is bothering making a big fuss about it. Also dissapointing was what the ALP chose to focus on today during question time - some party at Kirribilli House. We have an opposition bitching about some function, and a government bitching about door knocking. Who gives a toss? At least it gave Costello a chance to have a bit of fun. That's always cool.

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,21899113-31037,00.html

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,21899113-31037,00.html

But the Labor peeps weren't even all that funny. Only Costello and *shock horror* Howard were kinda funny in their little tirades. Didn't laugh at Hockey though. It was very awkward to see him basically repeating the same things that Howard and Costello had just being mucking around with.

 

[ZabZu]

I thought union membership was <10%, and that those people were almost 100% certain to preference Labor over Coalition anyway?

Union membership is around 20% of the workforce.

 

[Sparcod]

LOL! They have some big issue concerning WorkChoices vs the ACTU and 'some' people find the costs of the dinner at Kirribilli more fascinating. Howard was like "What cost?".

As for the so called "Dirty Tricks Manual", I reckon that it's just campaigning to get rid of the Howard government. Of course, they're there to look get what they see is right for workers, right?

I do feel as if that the ALP have distanced themselves from the unions so you can't really blame Labor for this form of campaigning.

 

[Sparcod]

Union membership is around 20% of the workforce.

I'd say it's a lot more than 10% but less than 20%. In some sectors such as the NSW public education sector, everyone is a union member.

 

[Rafy]

I'd say it's a lot more than 10% but less than 20%. In some sectors such as the NSW public education sector, everyone is a union member.

Its 20% (15% of private sector workers and 43% of public sector workers are union members)

EDIT: Here's the latest abs release.


And here's the ACTU manual: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/files/actu_campaignmanual.pdf
Pity they have trouble spelling Labo(u)r.

 

[Sparcod]

Union Membership- it's still down from the WWII days.

Does anybody think that John Howard brought the unions back to life again with WorkChoices? I don't know but it's quite debatable.

Sometimes, I don't think that there's anything wrong with a party (whichever side) that angers unions. Hawke-Keating angered the unions with some of their economic policies.

Speaking of campaigning, I do recall a bit of the last election where "John Howard" was calling up people with a recorded message urging them to vote for the Liberals.

 

[koube0530]

Can't believe they both went to see Dalai Lama after all that resistance. Why bother in the first place.