2008 Presidential Election - Obama v McCain (2 Viewers)

[Iron]

A - lobbyist - is - a - hired -gun. They're salesmen, negotiators, opportunists, whatever. They have well-honed political skills. The fact that they worked for a corporation tells you nothing about their personal values. It probably only signifies that they went where the market dictates that their skills should go - with groups who make the most money.
What's going on in your head? Do fat old men with top hats and cigars heave them out from the ground and from thence command their eternal loyalty?
Actually, dont answer that. Pls. I will pay you money to not keep this going.

 

[Trefoil]

A - lobbyist - is - a - hired -gun. They're salesmen, negotiators, opportunists, whatever. They have well-honed political skills. The fact that they worked for a corporation tells you nothing about their personal values. It probably only signifies that they went where the market dictates that their skills should go - with groups who make the most money.
What's going on in your head? Do fat old men with top hats and cigars heave them out from the ground and from thence command their eternal loyalty?
Actually, dont answer that. Pls. I will pay you money to not keep this going.

Thanks for another straw man.

This isn't about the character of corporate lobbyists. Assume they are just doing there job, as you say. How does that explain why you think corporate lobbying shouldn't be more tightly controlled to prevent the will of corporations twisting policy and law? I bring up the example of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae again.

It probably only signifies that they went where the market dictates that their skills should go - with groups who make the most money.

So groups who make the most money have the most right to access lobbyists?

 

[Iron]

ffs
Businesses who make the most money are those who usually provide the most valued product or service to consumers, so youbettchya they have a right to access. If they didnt, gvt would seek them out themselves.
And whatever, "twisting policy and law" is a matter of perspective. Governments find their input highly valuable in deciding what to do, but the decision lies with the elected representatives. The Almighty gave free will to politicians too! omg!
You're not even talking about bribery, youre talking about the very IDEA that business would DARE seek to talk to government. OMG! That's corrupt! That is why youre an idiot, and that is why I wont take anymore of your clumsy prodding

And YET, you rabidly defend Obama on meeting corrupt, dangerous foreign leaders without preconditions!
We shud have tea wif our enemies and hang teh capitalists imo!

 

[Iron]

Publically renounce statements to the effect of:
-Death to America
-We will destroy Israel with the nuclear weapons we are about to finish building
-etc

 

[Iron]

omg the mac on snl
http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/mccain-qvc-open/805381/

 

[Trefoil]

ffs
Businesses who make the most money are those who usually provide the most valued product or service to consumers, so youbettchya they have a right to access. If they didnt, gvt would seek them out themselves.
And whatever, "twisting policy and law" is a matter of perspective. Governments find their input highly valuable in deciding what to do, but the decision lies with the elected representatives. The Almighty gave free will to politicians too! omg!
You're not even talking about bribery, youre talking about the very IDEA that business would DARE seek to talk to government. OMG! That's corrupt! That is why youre an idiot, and that is why I wont take anymore of your clumsy prodding

And YET, you rabidly defend Obama on meeting corrupt, dangerous foreign leaders without preconditions!
We shud have tea wif our enemies and hang teh capitalists imo!

So you support the corporate lobbying Frannie Mae and Freddie Mac did to keep regulations lax, then?

 

[Iron]

Yes, I support the meaningful freedom of speech of allowing significant citizen's groups access government.
wiki democracy

It was advise that no politician was compelled to follow. If youre suggesting that the politicians who supported moves to allow poor people to buy houses were only doing so because some Jaffar-type fellow caught their eyes with his serpant stick, then good luck to you

 

[Kwayera]

Just overheard on the news that Obama got 60% of the pre-poll vote (23 million people).

 

[Riet]

So you support the corporate lobbying Frannie Mae and Freddie Mac did to keep regulations lax, then?

You know they're GSEs, right?

 

[Trefoil]

Yes, I support the meaningful freedom of speech of allowing significant citizen's groups access government.
wiki democracy

It was advise that no politician was compelled to follow. If youre suggesting that the politicians who supported moves to allow poor people to buy houses were only doing so because some Jaffar-type fellow caught their eyes with his serpant stick, then good luck to you

I think I'll just quote the DC Court of Appeals (affirmed by the Supreme Court) at you since you make your stuff up as you go:

In support of the power of Congress it is argued that lobbying is within the regulatory power of Congress, that influence upon public opinion is indirect lobbying, since therefore attempts to influence public opinion are subject to regulation by the Congress. Lobbying, properly defined, is subject to control by Congress, . . . But the term cannot be expanded by mere definition so as to include forbidden subjects. Neither semantics nor syllogisms can break down the barrier which protects the freedom of people to attempt to influence other people by books and other public writings. . . . It is said that lobbying itself is an evil and a danger. We agree that lobbying by personal contact may be an evil and a potential danger to the best in legislative processes. It is said that indirect lobbying by the pressure of public opinion on the Congress is an evil and a danger. That is not an evil; it is a good, the healthy essence of the democratic process. . . .

Summary:
- Personal lobbying (e.g. on behalf of corporations or groups) = potentially dangerous to democratic health and subject to Congressional regulation
- Grassroots lobbying by citizens = democracy and not subject to Congressional regulation

 

[Trefoil]

You know they're GSEs, right?

Yep, but they still used corporate lobbying to influence senators to support less regulation.

Just because the government owns/oversees a business or corporation doesn't make it above scrutiny or law.

 

[Iron]

I think I'll just quote the DC Court of Appeals (affirmed by the Supreme Court) at you since you make your stuff up as you go:



Summary:
- Personal lobbying (e.g. on behalf of corporations or groups) = potentially dangerous to democratic health and subject to Congressional regulation
- Grassroots lobbying by citizens = democracy and not subject to Congressional regulation

Random obiter, well done. I never said that there should not be regulations of lobbying. Even an idiot like you can see the potential for corruption. Allegations of bribery, for instance, are obviously serious, but you made no such claims. We were talking about lobbying in its broadest sense - i.e. should business be allowed to talk to government. In your inarticulate, furrowed-brow, Obama-drone way, you were trying to argue that all business access to government is WRONG, as 'business only wants to screw the people, and politicians are vulnerable to their witchcraft!'.

Whatever dude, you are about as annoying as true or emmytalyor right now. I dont have time to keep you company, or rebutt your childish wiki notions of how government works

 

[Riet]

Yep, but they still used corporate lobbying to influence senators to support less regulation.

Just because the government owns/oversees a business or corporation doesn't make it above scrutiny or law.

k so the government is lobbying itself?

 

[Trefoil]

Random obiter, well done. I never said that there should not be regulations of lobbying. Even an idiot like you can see the potential for corruption. Allegations of bribery, for instance, are obviously serious, but you made no such claims. We were talking about lobbying in its broadest sense - i.e. should business be allowed to talk to government. In your inarticulate, furrowed-brow, Obama-drone way, you were trying to argue that all business access to government is WRONG, as 'business only wants to screw the people, and politicians are vulnerable to their witchcraft!'.

Whatever dude, you are about as annoying as true or emmytalyor right now. I dont have time to keep you company, or rebutt your childish wiki notions of how government works

Oh really? Where did I argue that all business access to government is wrong?

You have said that money is the decider of how much access a corporation has to government (through lobbyists). I strongly disagree, since that clearly gives disproportionate political power to those with the most money. That doesn't mean I don't think corporations should be able to put forth their case - if you read that into it you must be blind.

 

[Trefoil]

k so the government is lobbying itself?

No. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, were privately owned but publicly chartered before they were placed into conservatorship.

 

[Iron]

Money IS power, read a book, it has always been so. It reflects success in giving the people what they want. Government LOOOOOOoooVES talking to these guys because they too want to know how to make the people happy.
Those people, btw, are cattle like you, chewing the cudd with heavy eyes and short vision, busy mooing and stinking of shit to create anything original themselves.

Im not sure why youre trying to interpret America as a communist regime, but it's not funny.

Ok, seriously, drop it now. Drop itttttt. K?

 

[Riet]

No. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, were privately owned but publicly chartered before they were placed into conservatorship.

And? The board of directors has a duty to the stockholders to lobby for what most benefits them.

 

[katie tully]

quick quick

mccain and obama on 60 minutes



YES I KNOW 60 MINUTES WO8734YHGE9R87YH, but anyway. watch it

 

[Riet]

HEY GUYS DID YOU KNOW THAT 95% OF OIL COMPANIES LOBBY AGAINST CLIMATE CHANGE BILLS THAT WILL DISADVANTAGE THEM????!!!!

 

[katie tully]

lol @ mccain becoming a national hero coz he refused his captors offer to be released early

that
is
just
stupidity