9 australians in bali drug bust.. (3 Viewers)

[[trent]]

Every country has its own laws visitors must abide by. It's not our government's role to try and change the judicial system of other countries to protect Australians who break them. Though the penalty seems harsh to us, they have their way, we have ours. If people are damm right stupid enough to smuggle drugs, knowing full well the consequences, then all nine of them must have had death wishes.

This isn't even an 'oh gosh, I was framed' case. These people had drugs strapped to themselves at the airport!

Even with mainstream, sensationalist current affair programs like ACA and Today Tonight telling us how ‘corrupt’ the legal system over there is, a ‘fair’ trial wouldn’t produce a different verdict. These people are obviously guilty, not matter how good your lawyers are.

And I think the comment on Indonesia’s ungratefulness and how it should be our right to transport drugs because of the millions we inject into their economy is a piece of crap. Drug smuggling is illegal everywhere in the world, and we’re the ones treating their country like shit, not the other way round.

 

[lourai*87]

Why do people seem to think these people deserve what they get? They dont. Honestly, its drugs..not weapons, explosives, etc. As i said before, they grow the shit, right there in bali.

And these people were taking it out of bali, which means it was in bali to start with. So did it get in there and customs missed it, or did it come from bali to start with? And if the latter is correct, are they gonna shoot their own people too?

These "world leaders" need to fucking wake up and realise...theyre never gonna solve it so dont kill people in an attempt to.

 

[Sweets]

I have sympathy for Schapelle Corby some what but I totally don't for these guys. I don't get why everyone is going on about the rights of Australia, they are breaking the law for god's sake. If the situation were reversed and some Muslim Indonesian's had been caught smuggling drugs into Australia they would be accused of 'ruining Australian society', 'the other who is corrupting our youth'. Personally, if that did happen I would be in full support of them facing whatever punishment under Australian law.

I don't agree with Indonesia's law as I am against the death penalty but that is their law.

I mean drugs have a huge impact on society in a extremely negative way so I personally cannot feel any sympathy for these guys.

 

[tattoodguy]

yeah its only drugs..not weopons -------- if ur taking drugs from a country................thats actually helping the fucking country.

And you cant say they are all guilty etc........one of them i heard..didnt even have drugs on him ------

im sure they will force the others to implicate him though.

thats how legal systems work. total injustice.

why be sympathetic to corby? she got busted with drugs and alledgedly confesssed? so i dont seeee why she is any lesss guilty.

Indonesia should show more respect to our citizens..we should have special privlidges etc...including the right to smuggle drugs from them.........we help them so much they could turn a blind eye.

Australian officials like the federal police should not be co-operating with any corrrupt governments etc.... and human rights abusers etc.

we have seeen the circus over the corby case --- why put other australians through that........................... their is potentila for innocent australians to now be murdered because of the actions of our government................

Thats fucking unacceptable.

 

[gordo]

i felt a bit bad wen i saw the 4 dudes who looked like that just finished high school

but that bald, asian guy with the earring - i felt no sympathy at all

 

[ogmzergrush]

I don't agree with Indonesia's law as I am against the death penalty but that is their law.

I don't agree with the holocaust, but you know, Hitler had a plan.

 

[tattoodguy]

taking drugs out of a country................shouldnt incur the death penalty.

killing many innocent people --------- there is an arguement for the death penalty..

but simply removing drugs from a country....no fuckign way.


i like that asian bloke............i think he lives near me? enfield i think they said yeah?

that asian bloke is a champ..........i heard he didnt have drugs on him..........if you dont catch him in the act etc.......................leave him alone.

They shouldnt rely on the testimony of people facing the death penalty to find that asian bloke guilty --------------- obviously they have a interest in blaming him ----- this is how innocent ppple get fucked over.

i hope they all get offff ---------- there all pretty young -- give them a fucking break.

 

[Sweets]

I don't agree with the holocaust, but you know, Hitler had a plan.

Umm these two issues are pretty uncomparable. So I think it is in pretty ill taste of you to bring it up.

 

[Sweets]

Australian officials like the federal police should not be co-operating with any corrrupt governments etc.... and human rights abusers etc.
QUOTE]

One word China. No one seems to care about our free-trade agreements etc with them. Even though China's human rights record is appaling.

The truth is the government doesn't care about these individuals (nor do I, but for completely different reasons) they are just small cogs in a much bigger wheel.

 

[ogmzergrush]

Umm these two issues are pretty uncomparable. So I think it is in pretty ill taste of you to bring it up.

From where I stand they're both killing people unjustifiably, so I think it's fairly valid. Obviously the scale is quite different, but aside from that I still feel that it's a reasonable comparison.

And yes, of course you're going to think it's in ill taste, afterall, I said holocaust.

For clarification of my initial point, in case you were too offended to get it, I was simply stating that I don't see why moral objections become any less important when they relate to something not happening within our own country. If you think something is wrong, then it's wrong anywhere, anytime, not just in your own backyard.

 

[breaking]

i felt a bit bad wen i saw the 4 dudes who looked like that just finished high school

lol i knew one of them - trust me, he was a dickhead.

 

[OZGIRL86]

taking drugs out of a country................shouldnt incur the death penalty.

killing many innocent people --------- there is an arguement for the death penalty..

For once I agree with you..
Of course they should be punished, though I don't think they deserve the death penalty


off topic but whats happening with the bali bombers?

 

[ogmzergrush]

off topic but whats happening with the bali bombers?

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/08/17/1092508474551.html?oneclick=true Those ones?

 

[paper cup]

Every country has its own laws visitors must abide by. It's not our government's role to try and change the judicial system of other countries to protect Australians who break them. Though the penalty seems harsh to us, they have their way, we have ours. If people are damm right stupid enough to smuggle drugs, knowing full well the consequences, then all nine of them must have had death wishes.

This isn't even an 'oh gosh, I was framed' case. These people had drugs strapped to themselves at the airport!

Even with mainstream, sensationalist current affair programs like ACA and Today Tonight telling us how ‘corrupt’ the legal system over there is, a ‘fair’ trial wouldn’t produce a different verdict. These people are obviously guilty, not matter how good your lawyers are.

And I think the comment on Indonesia’s ungratefulness and how it should be our right to transport drugs because of the millions we inject into their economy is a piece of crap. Drug smuggling is illegal everywhere in the world, and we’re the ones treating their country like shit, not the other way round.

They weren't aware they were facing the death penalty - which I think is the real tragedy of it all. This naivety....that exists within the lower rungs of the socioeconomic ladder...especially in developed countries...this ignorance of the world, and Australia's standing in relation to it - it's the stuff Asqy's always going on about lol...Australia needs to do a lot in educating her citizens about civics, politics and int rel. but they can't be blamed for it either, it's part of their context and upbringing. Of course I'm not saying all poor or less educated people are like that, but there are some.

 

[Enlightened_One]

They weren't aware they were facing the death penalty - which I think is the real tragedy of it all. This naivety....that exists within the lower rungs of the socioeconomic ladder...especially in developed countries...this ignorance of the world, and Australia's standing in relation to it - it's the stuff Asqy's always going on about lol...Australia needs to do a lot in educating her citizens about civics, politics and int rel. but they can't be blamed for it either, it's part of their context and upbringing. Of course I'm not saying all poor or less educated people are like that, but there are some.

They did know it was against the law. They can't have been dumb. Australia can't educate people all the laws of all the countries in the world and shouldn't have to. If you enter another country then you should have a basic knowledge of their laws and their customs. That's common sense. If you're planning to deliberately break a law in another country then you should at least try and find out what the penalty is. They all had basic education and none of them were illiterate. And given the extensive media coverage of Schapelle Corby's trial you'd have thought they'd have understood the risks.
Apparently that Asian man, the one they call the 'godfather' was on the plan reading a paper when they nabbed him. Doesn't sound too uneducated to me.

Just hnow ignorant and uneducated were they. From what I've read they seem to be no less educated than half the population. They seem a far cry from the poverty stricken, completely uneducated, illiterate poor souls you make them out to be.

 

[paper cup]

They did know it was against the law. They can't have been dumb. Australia can't educate people all the laws of all the countries in the world and shouldn't have to. If you enter another country then you should have a basic knowledge of their laws and their customs. That's common sense. If you're planning to deliberately break a law in another country then you should at least try and find out what the penalty is. They all had basic education and none of them were illiterate. And given the extensive media coverage of Schapelle Corby's trial you'd have thought they'd have understood the risks.
Apparently that Asian man, the one they call the 'godfather' was on the plan reading a paper when they nabbed him. Doesn't sound too uneducated to me.

Just hnow ignorant and uneducated were they. From what I've read they seem to be no less educated than half the population. They seem a far cry from the poverty stricken, completely uneducated, illiterate poor souls you make them out to be.

I wasn't making excuses for them at all, just commenting on a social situ.

http://smh.com.au/news/World/Fast-f...esist-fast-cash/2005/04/19/1113854203540.html

By all accounts, Renae Lawrence was desperate for money.

Her car had broken down two months ago and to get it back on the road would cost her at least $1000. She needed it to drive between Sydney and Newcastle to visit her boyfriend. On top of that she had car loan repayments and a mounting credit card debt.
....
Anggia Browne, the lawyer representing Lawrence and Stephens, said the drug mules were paid a relatively small amount of money - $10,000 to $15,000 - to traffick the heroin, which had a street value of $4 million. "Looks like they pick up [the drugs] because they are from poor or stupid families," she said. "They are only couriers. It's a stupid thing they do it for that money."
She said neither Lawrence nor Stephens, 29, from Towradgi near Wollongong, knew they could face the death penalty until she told them. "They could die now ... can you imagine for $15,000?".....

"It surprises me that she would get involved in this but she was pretty desperate. She was upset when the car blew up. She was crying on the phone to her aunty wanting money. She was doing it tough. I don't think she's ever had a lot of money."
He said his daughter had never left Australia. "Somebody has bought her a passport and the plane ticket. Maybe somebody offered this to her and said, 'There's no risk'. Not knowing what it involved or anything else, she has gone along with it. She is not 27 at heart. She's probably 15. She's just really gullible, naive and bloody stupid. She's not a bad kid. She's just got in with the wrong mob."
....

Mr Lawson worked with Norman at Aussie Stadium several years ago selling food in the stands but had not seen much of him lately. He said Norman had become more involved in work since leaving school in year 10. "He was at work all the time."
....


Mr and Mrs Czugaj, who have eight children, said their son had always been a "problem child".
"Wagging school and stuff like that, but never anything serious," Mrs Czugaj said. "I really don't know how he could be roped into doing something like that."

 

[loquasagacious]

I think its time for some moral equivalency.

What for instance would gordo (as this threads resident aglo-supremecist nationalist) be saying and ACA/TT be saying if:

A young indonesian woman was caught with drugs in her bag and the best defence she could come up with was "its a plant, I've never seen them before" and some waterworks and she didn't have any proof.

Or a GANG of indonesian men was caught trying to smuggle heroin into Australia strapped to their bodies and jammed in their intestines.

I would be willing to bet that there would be harsh xenophobic calls for the harshest punishment possible in both cases.

It would seem then that the war on drugs is good as long as no-one we known (or known collectively via tv adoption eg chappelle corby) is caught.

Just like how we should lock up wog gang rapists for ever but forgive a moment of indiscretion by our sons when they were tanked up at a party.

 

[Sweets]

From where I stand they're both killing people unjustifiably, so I think it's fairly valid. Obviously the scale is quite different, but aside from that I still feel that it's a reasonable comparison.

And yes, of course you're going to think it's in ill taste, afterall, I said holocaust.

For clarification of my initial point, in case you were too offended to get it, I was simply stating that I don't see why moral objections become any less important when they relate to something not happening within our own country. If you think something is wrong, then it's wrong anywhere, anytime, not just in your own backyard.

Don't make assumptions on what I think, it had nothing to do with you saying holocaust.

The comparison is just invalid. The the holocaust was the systematic attempt to wipe out a entire race. These people have broken the law and now they will incur the penalty according to that country. And from this THEIR perspective it is justifiable. The victims of the holocaust were innocent people these people are by no means innocent. Whether you think their killing is justifiable or not is a completely different issue.

And I don't think you can be black and white to say that 'something is wrong anywhere anytime' because you have to understand the idea of cultural relavitism and the beliefs of different cultures etc. So therefore when I look at this situation from my moral standpoint I have to take into account the circumstance of others or whatever situation I am looking at, which in this case in Indonesia.

 

[lourai*87]

I cant remember who it was and i couldnt be bothered writing quotes, but feeling sympathy for one lot and then not another just cos he was asian and bald...come on. And no im not asian myself.

If muslims came in here with drugs, sure they would be punished, but not killed.

There is no justice in this legal system at all. And is Aust govt even trying to protect these guys, or will it lessen their popularity with indonesian govt if they do?

Also some public opinion has been saying that these people who traffic drugs are issuing a death sentence to people who will potentially take the drugs, so therefore they are getting what they deserve. How so? The people who take drugs choose to do it, no-one forces them. Theyre issuing their own death sentence, no-one else. And no i dont take drugs either, never have and dont ever intend to.

 

[gordo]

you've never tried panadol?

i hear its pretty fully hectic man