Aboriginal children in care now exceeds stolen generations (3 Viewers)

[rasengan90]

Yeah...Totally hopeless, thats why they were able to conquer the whole continent in no more than a century and create industry, agriculture and civilisation.

[/quote=rockyroadyou] they lived in peace with the land and with each other

I really hate that argument. What kind of racist crap is it when people claim that Aboriginals lived in peace with so few wars for 40,000 years yet the Europeans were constantly pulling each other apart. All humans should be subject to the same moral code and I don't see why people never whine about "oh tribe A took over tribe B's land and enslaved their people' but shit hits the fan when a big white tribe come and do the same thing. Aboriginals fought, killed, tortured and enslaved each other just like every other group of people on this planet has done and will do until our demise. You contradict yourself by acknowledging my point at first but them wandering off to some hippie peace crap.

edit- fuck the quote thing won't go right but you get my point.

 

[settle*precious]

Lol who said Australia doesn't have domesticated wild animals?


Lol @ whoever said that. Dude, you can get pet sugar gliders. Theres all the ones Tully said and more + lots of native birds that are now domestic pets.

 

[Trefoil]

Number one: Survival of the fittest and natural selection is the same thing.

They're not really.

Natural selection is about a species being sufficiently fit to survive, but "survival of the fittest" implies only the fittest survive. It's misleading, and "survival of the fittest" is not a scientifically used phrase.

More specifically, natural selection is about mechanisms by which more favourable genetic traits become more common in later generations, while less favourable ones becomes less common. Even then, natural selection isn't the only mechanism that evolution acts through.

 

[impervious182]

They're not really.

Natural selection is about a species being sufficiently fit to survive, but "survival of the fittest" implies only the fittest survive. It's misleading, and "survival of the fittest" is not a scientifically used phrase.

This thread really got crap.

 

[Shibby.........]

They're not really.

Natural selection is about a species being sufficiently fit to survive, but "survival of the fittest" implies only the fittest survive. It's misleading, and "survival of the fittest" is not a scientifically used phrase.

If you look at the theory behind them, they basically refer to the same thing.

 

[Josip Broz Tito]

To the overly sarcastic annoying shits, here are my beliefs:

The abo's have brought no positive impact on society; they have brought no advancements to the philosophical, physical and technological spheres of this world. These factors are essential in our world and whether you agree or not, have given you the privileges and resources that you are dependent upon today.

The culture of the abos is not amazing, unique, morally centered with family based values. It was primitive and they did not know any better. Compared to other civilisations they have been absurdly backward and it is because of the abos that Australia is lacking in culture when compared to other countries.

The abos continue to use the english settlement, stolen generation as an excuse to receive beneficial treatment in current times within australia. Instead they fail to realise that invasions occur, empires grow/ decline and territories continue to change. Wars have occurred, people have died and it is time that they get the fuck over it. Whilst the things that have occurred to them were horrible, compared to other historical events, they were given a better treatment.

Furthermore, they are not gaining by sympathy through their current actions and behaviours. Whilst i know that not all are like this, i think the majority need to understand that Australia should not continually center itself on their problems. Learning about them during my schooling life has been enough already.



And thats my worthless wall of text contribution.

 

[Shibby.........]

This thread really got crap.

Why, is people swearing at each other all day your cup of tea or something?

 

[Trefoil]

Why, is people swearing at each other all day your cup of tea or something?

I imagine it's more because alexdores is suspicious of science and doesn't believe in evolution.

 

[Shibby.........]

I imagine it's more because alexdores is suspicious of science and doesn't believe in evolution.

It's all clear to me now

 

[impervious182]

Why, is people swearing at each other all day your cup of tea or something?

I didn't swear at anyone. I said 'this thread got crap'... unless you're trying to argue that the thread somehow qualifies as a person.

 

[rasengan90]

Furthermore, they are not gaining by sympathy through their current actions and behaviours. Whilst i know that not all are like this, i think the majority need to understand that Australia should not continually center itself on their problems. Learning about them during my schooling life has been enough already.

Christ yes. I am sick of hearing about them and glad I won't have the lefty crap of the New South Welsh curriculum down my throat anymore

 

[Iron]

Until we put things right with the indigenes, we're just here for the view. We will have no moral claim to the land and therefore no adequate national identity

 

[Josip Broz Tito]

Why do we need to put things right with the indigenous? Couldn't it simply be a case of veni, vidi, vici?

 

[Trefoil]

It's all clear to me now

Anyway, I haven't read this thread, but while the aborigines didn't make much technological or social progress by themselves, if history and sociology are any judge that's simply a product of luck (or lack thereof) rather than some sort of genetic inferiority.

That is: present problems are of a cultural basis, not a genetic one. We need to find some way to overcome the rather destructive culture aboriginals have evolved (in part because their original culture was kind of brutal, and in part because they haven't been properly integrated into Western culture).

Taking them from their parents and raising them outside typical aboriginal culture is one solution to this, but it's generally not humane (although I completely stand by any children taken by DOCS in present times for fear of their safety).

Note: this problem isn't unique to Australia. Aborigines of today are just like any other low socioeconomic group in history. They just have the added benefit/burden of also being a fairly homogeneous racial group as well. Either way, it would seem to me that the answer is education and exposure over time.

 

[Shibby.........]

Anyway, I haven't read this thread, but while the aborigines didn't make much technological or social progress by themselves, if history and sociology are any judge that's simply a product of luck (or lack thereof) rather than some sort of genetic inferiority.

That is: present problems are of a cultural basis, not a genetic one. We need to find some way to overcome the rather destructive culture aboriginals have evolved (in part because their original culture was kind of brutal, and in part because they haven't been properly integrated into Western culture).

Taking them from their parents and raising them outside typical aboriginal culture is one solution to this, but it's generally not humane (although I completely stand by any children taken by DOCS in present times for fear of their safety).

Taking them from their parents may be a good idea, but completely alienating them from their culture is not

 

[Iron]

Why do we need to put things right with the indigenous? Couldn't it simply be a case of veni, vidi, vici?

Well that's the thing, we didnt conquor at all. If we won the land honestly through our blood, then that's a satisfactory moral basis. We tried this with, say, Gallipoli -heroic sacrifice for our way of life in our land- but it wasnt convincing for obbvious reasons (imperial fodder, failure, no relation to our security etc). We just have this lingering issue -this gaping, weeping sore- which hasnt, like some hoped and assumed, died out. So we're left with no other choice than reconciliation, starting with the convincing apology.

 

[Trefoil]

Taking them from their parents may be a good idea, but completely alienating them from their culture is not

It depends on the aspects of their culture you're alienating them from. If it's their art, language and music, that's inappropriate. If it's their worldviews, social attitudes and unofficial laws, those are probably exactly the things you want to alienate them from because they've become a destructive force in modern aboriginal society.

 

[Josip Broz Tito]

see but thats the thing that i dont understand. how did we win the land 'immorally'? what are the methods of conquering, and how was the English settlement unconventional?
Similar cases were seen in Canada, Northern America, Hawaii, Pacific Island and yet none of them have had the same extent of 'Indigenous sympathising' (could not think of another phrase) as we have. We were one of the first countries to ridiculously apologise and yet we still have no 'moral' gain to the land?

 

[Shibby.........]

It depends on the aspects of their culture you're alienating them from. If it's their art, language and music, that's inappropriate. If it's their worldviews, social attitudes and unofficial laws, those are probably exactly the things you want to alienate them from because they've become a destructive force in modern aboriginal society.

What do you mean their art language and music is inappropriate. What about their history, is that inappropriate too? I don't think so at all. I think that your history and all the rest of it influence who you are.

 

[rasengan90]

What do you mean their art language and music is inappropriate. What about their history, is that inappropriate too? I don't think so at all. I think that your history and all the rest of it influence who you are.

Lol read the post back silly. Thats not what he meant.