All local students, Attention!! (1 Viewer)

[Shaking Paper]

Furthermore, you do Arts, if I'm not mistaken. Your exposure to international students wouldn't be very high, esp. compared to Commerce degrees where the mix is about 50/50.

Unless you do Asian Studies or an Asian Language.

Last semester I had two group assessments. The first had two partners, one sent an e-mail each week apologising for not having started and promising to start soon, she ended up submitting a draft I made for her to help her along, the other student was hardly better.
The second had five partners, all Asian, but three were international students. Despite all of the e-mails and words I'd had with them to help guide them and explain things, all three submitted unedited wikipedia articles (well, half of one of them had been changed into broken English after I’d sent each lengthy e-mails warning them about plagiarism), one of them an hour before the due date. Fortunately we were marked separately, but it was very frustrating.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Asians doing Asian studies. That ought be considered cheating.

and if you were in their position you'd be no better at it.

Yeah but I wouldn't do what they do, so meh. If they come to an Australian university, funded by the Australian taxpayer (mostly), wanting Australian degrees and filled with mostly Australian students then they ought to do their best to fit in with the student population. As it is, most don't. Unfortunate but true.

Last semester I had two group assessments. The first had two partners, one sent an e-mail each week apologising for not having started and promising to start soon, she ended up submitting a draft I made for her to help her along, the other student was hardly better.
The second had five partners, all Asian, but three were international students. Despite all of the e-mails and words I'd had with them to help guide them and explain things, all three submitted unedited wikipedia articles (well, half of one of them had been changed into broken English after I’d sent each lengthy e-mails warning them about plagiarism), one of them an hour before the due date. Fortunately we were marked separately, but it was very frustrating.

Whoa. Oh man, I'd hate to have been in that class.

 

[stazi]

actually international students fund the university more than we do individually. they pay ridiculous fees.

 

[Wooz]

actually international students fund the university more than we do individually. they pay ridiculous fees.

Unfortunately they are also inelligible for many benefits, scholarships and concessions(travel concession, etc) as a result. I'm wonding if Rudd is also gonna change the Int Fee system aswell, hopefully uni's dont't jack up the prices as a result of the DFEE cut. I think INTFee places will expand though.

 

[hj1985]

I believe that OZ governemt should have to give some sorta benefits, at very least, the travel concession. You cannot justify the ineligibility by merely saying "they are foreigners"! Despite of the residency status, internatioanl students are also uni students and they contribute to the funding of Oz tertiary education to a large extent! So at least, plz give us the travel concession

 

[blakegman]

I believe that OZ governemt should have to give some sorta benefits, at very least, the travel concession. You cannot justify the ineligibility by merely saying "they are foreigners"! Despite of the residency status, internatioanl students are also uni students and they contribute to the funding of Oz tertiary education to a large extent! So at least, plz give us the travel concession

There not australian citizens, why should they be entitled to the same discounts as an australian citizen. Because you bought your way into university?

Public transport is funded by taxes, most of which international students do not contribute to.

 

[mitsui]

I had the same dreadful experience with most international students when it comes to groupwork. I learned to just ignore and do the whole assignment by myself.

Other than that, I am grateful for their contribution in lowering my uni fees.

Another point you must understand (& I am generalising here, sorry), the most outstanding Asian students go to USA and Europe, Australia is kind of like an option B.

Basically, we get most of the int. students who don't put much efforts in study back in their own countries.

*generalisation, don't drown me with your words!*

 

[stazi]

There not australian citizens, why should they be entitled to the same discounts as an australian citizen. Because you bought your way into university?

Public transport is funded by taxes, most of which international students do not contribute to.

but a lot of those students also work here, and thus leave their tax dollars in Australia, and are thus paying for the services which for some reason they have to pay the max price for..

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

actually international students fund the university more than we do individually. they pay ridiculous fees.

Indeed. But doesn't the taxpayer (as a whole) fund more of the university than international students do? That's what I was trying to get at.

 

[DeepDarkRose]

Furthermore, you do Arts, if I'm not mistaken. Your exposure to international students wouldn't be very high, esp. compared to Commerce degrees where the mix is about 50/50.

No not in my courses, and yes I'd find it as annoying as the rest of you if I had such group work problems, but I've done a lot of work with international students through issu and the union so I've met and had actual conversations (on a weekly basis I might add) with a lot more than a person who has done an assignment with one, so don't write me off as someone who has no idea what they're talking about.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

that's kinda irrelevant next to classwork though

 

[bustinjustin]

Unless you do Asian Studies or an Asian Language.

Actually, with few exceptions, Asian Studies units are taught in English, so language barriers still play a part when an International Student has to present on their 'own culture' and 'own history' in English for instance. It's actually a little disheartening to watch actually. That said, there's hardly the same amount of group work as there is in in other degrees.

Also, all jestful jibes aside about them looking the same, this doesn't mean that Asian history and cultures are homogenous. Just as Canadian or American history would generally be 'foreign' to Australians and Asians alike, some Asian Histories are as foreign to Asians as they are to other non-Asians, on top of the fact that at Sydney it's taught in English and not 'in Asian'.

As for Foreign students not fitting in and 'clustering', it's just a natural defence mechanism to stave off nigel-dom and boredom. It's what anyone else would do in a foreign country - find some people they can actually talk to, and lo and behold, there's heaps of other Asians around in the same boat. It's the easy way out, and a lot less effort than interacting with tall, seemingly brutish 'locals' that are equally uninspired to do the same. A lot of them probably do come with intentions of improving their Engrish, but I wonder just how many actually come to Sydney expecting to write 2000+ word essays in English, rather than just pass a few multiple choice questions here and there. Surely the uni makes this clear to them, but maybe it's not clear just how difficult this really is (it's often hard enough for 'native' speakers to do this, let alone for people who have to write them in a second-language, often on very specific topics that will have no relevance to them.
For instance, international students wanting to major in HR will have no choice but to write a whole host of essays on niche topics on Australian Industrial Relations. It's an extra price they'll have to pay if they want to major in it, and if groupwork's involved, then other people unfortunately suffer with them).

At the end of the day, it's a massive industry that many people benefit from, so props to the people who have to do groupwork with them, or go out of their way to befriend a few.

 

[blakegman]

but a lot of those students also work here, and thus leave their tax dollars in Australia, and are thus paying for the services which for some reason they have to pay the max price for..

Fair enough then. I just assumed that

A) most of them cant speak fluent english and would thus struggle to find employment.
B) to afford to study overseas you would have to be in most cases pretty wealthy to begin with, thus not really needing to work.

But if thats the case then i suppose they should be entitled to a concession.

 

[hj1985]

I strongly agree with stazi.

 

[The Brucemaster]

I've only ever had one problem with an international student in an Arabic class. Her English was poor enough, so I have no idea what she was thinking trying to learn Arabic....

On that note, WAF why do you the Shahada in your signature??

 

[Shaking Paper]

Actually, with few exceptions, Asian Studies units are taught in English, so language barriers still play a part when an International Student has to present on their 'own culture' and 'own history' in English for instance. It's actually a little disheartening to watch actually. That said, there's hardly the same amount of group work as there is in in other degrees.

Also, all jestful jibes aside about them looking the same, this doesn't mean that Asian history and cultures are homogenous. Just as Canadian or American history would generally be 'foreign' to Australians and Asians alike, some Asian Histories are as foreign to Asians as they are to other non-Asians, on top of the fact that at Sydney it's taught in English and not 'in Asian'.

As for Foreign students not fitting in and 'clustering', it's just a natural defence mechanism to stave off nigel-dom and boredom. It's the easy way out, and a lot less effort than interacting with tall, seemingly brutish 'locals' that are equally uninspired to do the same.

I was only saying that a large percentage of students in Asian Studies/Asian Language classes are international students, which is true, in fact I believe they've been the majority in all the units I’ve taken (of course they can be hard to distinguish from Asian-Australians).
In several language classes where I was the only Caucasian I felt positively shunned because of that ethnicity-clustering habit, however friendly I acted - probably part of the reason why I gave up the language.

On the subject, I remember last semester one professor going on a bit of a frustrated rant after he found that so many people couldn't understand the questions in a test.

 

[xiao1985]

Being a person who came from a non-English speaking country (but not an OS student), I found some of the posts expresses some bias which is irritating, if not infuriating.

I probably won't explain my life story here, but the loneliness and home sickness most int'l students have to endure is far beyond most of your imaginations. This probably explains why they identify people form their own origin so much. Granted, this alienates them from the rest of the Australian cultures, and is probably detrimental to both themselves and class discussions.

Regarding int'l students don't speak English, I support what most of you said. One reason why they study abroad is so that they could learn English, in addition to their first language. It make it kinda pointless to speak their first language.

Regarding most int'l students are lazy: I don't know if it's just me. From the 4 years of uni life, and more than a dozen (most south east asian) int'l students I've worked with, ONE, only one was particularly bad. Most are respectful, hardworking and diligent. A Japanese colleague of mine really surprised me once in Marketing principle. He experiences language barrier like everyone else, but he managed to remember word by word, a script I wrote for the presentation. So I guess the laziness is really luck of a draw thing.

As for studying with tax payer money some one mentioned. That's the most laughable thing I heard for quite some time now. Australia gov't consider int'l positions as EXPORT products. And if you had EVER, I mean EVER being an int'l student for just ONE semester, you'd think that int'l students funds Australian uni's.

Those being said, I'm not ruling out that there ARE lazy OS students and some of them may be hard to work with. I'm simply presenting an other point of view.

 

[ElGronko]

In some cases you can claim back all your income tax, dependent on the visa obtained.

 

[hj1985]

“Australia gov't consider int'l positions as EXPORT products”

This is extremely right, but plz dunt ignore the fact that the reason for many (if rather than most) overseas students to study in Australia is that they can apply for migration after graduate, so we might say it is kinda win-win situation, in which Oz Uni have money, and Int'l students have migration.

But since recent major policy change, now the migration is not an easy thing any more.:apig:

 

[stazi]

No not in my courses, and yes I'd find it as annoying as the rest of you if I had such group work problems, but I've done a lot of work with international students through issu and the union so I've met and had actual conversations (on a weekly basis I might add) with a lot more than a person who has done an assignment with one, so don't write me off as someone who has no idea what they're talking about.

congrats. i have also interacted with international students. however, doing work with someone for marks is quite different than engaging in a conversation with someone. so no, you don't have much of an idea what you're talking about. You have never had to present with international students. I've witnessed some real shockers and felt sorry for fellow classmates unfortunately enough to be in groups with them. Just by having one international students in your group, I would predict that your own personal workload goes up by 10-20%.

insert quote here

xiao: it feels lonely for you because you look like an extreme nerd. I don't mean this with offense, but that is what you look like. Similarly, I doubt a leb would come up to me and engage me in conversation and want to be friends with me, because I look like a skinny gay emo.

Yes, the caucasian population isn't very inclusive of international students and it's understandable why international Asians will keep to their kind (I'm in Singapore at the moment, and I go out with a very diverse group of people [international-schooled Arabs, Aussies, Yanks, Indians, Pakis], but not a single one of them is a Singaporean). Hell, even within my company, the Indians tend to stick together and the same can be sent for every other country represented in the workplace (NB: it's country-based segregation not race-based, as an Indian-Australian tends to hang out with other Aussies in the company; same for Asian-Australians).

Ultimately, to guide the argument back to the reality, working with an international students pisses me off like crazy. I want to get an HD in every subject that I take. I find it very difficult to do so (especially in marketing) if I have to prepare a presentation with someone who isn't extroverted or can't speak English properly.

In your marketing presentation the Japanese person memorised the speech, but it's unlikely that it was easy to listen to it due to the accent, and (I'm assuming) lack of presentation skills. I like incorporating skits, music, impro and a variety of things into my presos: I can't imagine many Asian international students agreeing to do the necessary things that would make the presentation stand out.