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Are there no jobs for lawyers (2 Viewers)

Orwell

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Yeah, otherwise I'd be going for a position that pays more than law...I'm saying I really want to do law, for all the right reasons, however, I don't want to be stressed from money woes. It's fairly obvious that money doesn't equal passions but I'm sure everyone wants to live comfortably being able to do what they love...
 

strawberrye

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Yeah, otherwise I'd be going for a position that pays more than law...I'm saying I really want to do law, for all the right reasons, however, I don't want to be stressed from money woes. It's fairly obvious that money doesn't equal passions but I'm sure everyone wants to live comfortably being able to do what they love...
I get your worries-where reality is very different from expectation. Apparently one of the friends of an acquaintance-they got medal in law from their uni (no idea what uni they were in) and they only got 2 job offers (each year there is only a total of 50 clerkship positions across NSW apparently)-and goodness knows how many graduates wanting a position. But at the same time, there are other disciplines that pays better than law-e.g. actuary, however, the question still remains-is it easy to get a job? (answer for most professions right now-no)
 

Orwell

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Actuary is a no-go ever, I could never envisage myself working a occupation that's so mathematically dense - would dishearten me.

But I do get your point, yet, I'm nowhere closer to realising how I can be comfortable in Year 12 knowing that as soon as I finish uni, I'll be broke, with massive debt, and no job.

I see so many people enter law with comfort and disregard for the concerns that worry me and I don't understand - maybe they're just not considering these problems as much as me?
 

RivalryofTroll

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Actuary is a no-go ever, I could never envisage myself working a occupation that's so mathematically dense - would dishearten me.

But I do get your point, yet, I'm nowhere closer to realising how I can be comfortable in Year 12 knowing that as soon as I finish uni, I'll be broke, with massive debt, and no job.

I see so many people enter law with comfort and disregard for the concerns that worry me and I don't understand - maybe they're just not considering these problems as much as me?
Three potential reasons:
1. People are blinded by the 'traditional' prestige behind a law degree or they think law practice is something glamorous like Suits.
2. Some people view their law degree only as a complementary degree that will allow them to get into non-legal fields such as consulting, investment banking, politics, etc.
3. If you're truly passionate about learning about the law and later practising law, factors such as money and job security are unlikely going to be massive concerns because you don't merely view law as a money-making path.
 

lawfiend

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Fucking hell.

If I were to do International Law, how would I approach getting a career as a undergrad coming out of Uni? Not like they're going to make me a diplomat straight away, so what other options are there? Additionally, when you say paralegal, do you mean that's I job I should strive for during the completion of my degree or after?

Once again, I don't mind the workload, I'm just worried that I won't have a good-paying job.
Do you need a law degree to practice as a diplomat? I have a friend who works at DFAT (law/arts) and he basically did the same thing as I did - except he interned at think tanks while I was working in law firms. You should strive for a paralegal role as soon as possible. Usually you need at least a semester worth of results but, if you don't have a paralegal gig or any type of legal experience by 4th-5th year, its going to be very hard for you to land a graduate job.

Also, there is plenty of money in law but its all concentrated at the top. Top equity partners earn an average of 1.5mil. Queen's Counsels (top barristers) earn $1m+ a year as well - hell, I work in a big firm and these people charge more than 10k a day (insane!). By 35, most top tier lawyers are on 200k+. Some have even made Partner by then and are on 350-500k. Other lawyers have gone overseas where the starting wage is even higher - for example, a lawyer who just got admitted in the UK working at a 'Magic Circle' firm like Freshfields would nearly be on 140k at age 25. If you go to the USA and manage to land a job at a 'White Shoe' firm its 180k at 25. In comparison its "only" around 100k here.
 

Orwell

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Do you need a law degree to practice as a diplomat? I have a friend who works at DFAT (law/arts) and he basically did the same thing as I did - except he interned at think tanks while I was working in law firms. You should strive for a paralegal role as soon as possible. Usually you need at least a semester worth of results but, if you don't have a paralegal gig or any type of legal experience by 4th-5th year, its going to be very hard for you to land a graduate job.

Also, there is plenty of money in law but its all concentrated at the top. Top equity partners earn an average of 1.5mil. Queen's Counsels (top barristers) earn $1m+ a year as well - hell, I work in a big firm and these people charge more than 10k a day (insane!). By 35, most top tier lawyers are on 200k+. Some have even made Partner by then and are on 350-500k. Other lawyers have gone overseas where the starting wage is even higher - for example, a lawyer who just got admitted in the UK working at a 'Magic Circle' firm like Freshfields would nearly be on 140k at age 25. If you go to the USA and manage to land a job at a 'White Shoe' firm its 180k at 25. In comparison its "only" around 100k here.
No, I understand but what law do you practice?

I'm assuming this isn't for every type of law.
 

lawfiend

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I get your worries-where reality is very different from expectation. Apparently one of the friends of an acquaintance-they got medal in law from their uni (no idea what uni they were in) and they only got 2 job offers (each year there is only a total of 50 clerkship positions across NSW apparently)-and goodness knows how many graduates wanting a position. But at the same time, there are other disciplines that pays better than law-e.g. actuary, however, the question still remains-is it easy to get a job? (answer for most professions right now-no)
Around 1500 people in NSW applied for clerkships this year. There are around 300 clerkships in NSW. Clerkships are still really hard though - its not just about good grades - the entire process is usually 5 stages long. Online testing -> 'information evening' -> 1st round interviews -> 'cocktail evening' -> 2nd round interviews.

From memory, actuary does not actually pay better than law. if you work at a big 4, the starting wage is around 65-70k. Still very good but, for example, the pay at Ashurst was 77k this year. The only two professions I know which pay more is the top end of investment banking (e.g. Goldman Sach pays like six figures right from the start) and the top end of management consulting (e.g. MBB pays 80k but then they also have a signing bonus of like 15k). Neither of these are easy to get into either because you will be competing with the same/very similar people as you would in law (many investment banking analysts actually have law degrees etc).
 
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lawfiend

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No, I understand but what law do you practice?

I'm assuming this isn't for every type of law.
Sorry should have specified. The figures I'm quoting here are all for commercial law.
 

Orwell

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Any idea as to how good the money is in International Law?

Also, is commercial law mathematically dense? I just want to keep my options open at this point.
 

lawfiend

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Any idea as to how good the money is in International Law?

Also, is commercial law mathematically dense? I just want to keep my options open at this point.
What do you mean by international law? You can practice internationally as a commercial lawyer, whereupon the figures above will apply for the top end of town. I don't think you can practice criminal law internationally because those laws are much more jurisdictional.

Commercial law is not mathematically dense. As a paralegal, I spend most of my time drafting emails/letters, proofreading over contracts for minor mistakes (mistakes in spelling/grammar - I'm not good enough to draft a contract yet!), doing legal research, doing discovery (reading over a pile of document to see if there is anything relevant our side can use) and running to/from various chambers/courts being a discovery boy etc. None of this requires maths. At a higher level, you get to draft contracts, actually construct most of the arguments used in court etc. -> no math there either.
 

neo o

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Dude, seriously, what don't you get about this? You don't 'do' international law. You do a law degree and possibly take two or more international law related electives in your fourth and fifth year.
 

isildurrrr1

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international law is a pretty broad field...

same as telling people you want to do 'law' and yet no specialised practice area.
 

clementinez

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There are a range of sub fields within international law. There's Public and Private but there's also International Commercial etc. If you're referring to public international law (which is what most people mean when they say international law), you should try and get positions in government departments or NGO's working within the area of human rights/humanitarian law/foreign policy.
 

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