Ashes to Ashes (2 Viewers)

[wuddie]

ok then... i am glad that argument is over

who do you will be a better all rounder for test cricket and should take the all rounder spot (shall we have one), symond or watson?

i am going for symond, not only for his gilchrist-like batting skills, but his ability to pick up the wickets and ease the pressure off warne

 

[Testpilot]

I don't like the whole all-rounder in the test team concept. I just think the a majority of all-rounders don't bat as well as a batsman or bowl as well as a bowler. If you're not making runs play a batsman, if you're not taking wickets-play a bowler. The all-rounders are good in ODIs because you have limitations on how the 50 overs can be bowled.

 

[sydneyswansfan]

I don't like the whole all-rounder in the test team concept.

I agree. Look how well we've done over the last decade without an all rounder in the squad. Its just the andrew flintoff fad atm thats got everyone all jumpy. As much as i hate to admit it, hes a great player and its rare to find another as talented as him. Just stick with the formula thats worked over the years.

 

[AntiJap]

Yes, Andrew Flintoff is overrated. If u look at his batting and bowling averages they are nothing special. He had 1-2 ok seasons in 04/05 and now everyone thinks he's someting to behold . what a joke.

 

[timlay]

well he has improved...
and yeah. well its like michael vaughan.
i can't remember the last time he scored a hundred. :S
and poms think they can win when he comes back. pfffsht.

 

[wuddie]

hmm i would really love the prospect of a great all rounder, someone like alan davidson can really do us a lot of good, especially at a time when our great bowlers are heading to the end of their careers, so that the young players can have someone to look up to. if shane watson can take his bowling to the next level, it'll really help.

 

[BlackDragon]

Well early in his career there is absolutely no way symonds would ever be in a test. but after that century at the world cup and especially in recent years, he has really matured as a batsmen and has the ability to be a good test batsmen. (he can build an innings but also score quickly, as we have seen in his last few tests). not to mention the fact that he is quite a handy part timer.
despite this, i'm not sure whether he should have the permanent spot. we need someone more like martyn. a more conventional top - middle order batsmen. i.e. less of a 'dasher' and more of a person who can has the ability to build long innings really strongly and work well in partnerships.

 

[HotShot]

I agree. Look how well we've done over the last decade without an all rounder in the squad. Its just the andrew flintoff fad atm thats got everyone all jumpy. As much as i hate to admit it, hes a great player and its rare to find another as talented as him. Just stick with the formula thats worked over the years.

Some of the best test side have had all-rounders in their team - like the West Indies - with Sobers.

With difference is you pick your 6 specialist batsman and if it happens to be that one of them can roll their arm over then you have an advantage. Sobers is a special player.

kapil dev one of the best all-rounders of all time. Then you Chris Cairns, all-rounders give you the oppurtinity to play an extra batsman or a bowler.

Flintoff is only overrated because he is the best player in the England team.

Ifran Pathan is another all-rounder who makes valuable contribution to the team.

But when you picking ur test team - u choose ur best 6 batsman and best 4 bowlets and best keeper. If it happens to be that one of them is an allrounder - then you have advantage. FLintoff happens to be excellent at bowling - and has the bonus of hard hitting.

on the other watson - really isnt a bowler. and his batting well we have yet to see. Symonds bowling is ok, and his batting is ok as well. I really think he should be in the test as a specialist batsman. batting at 4. Adam Voges i dont know much about him.

 

[BlackDragon]

i was just watching this "third umpire" interview of the smh website about the perth test. and dean jones suspected that damien martyn was told that the perth test would be his last, or something similiar (like being asked to just play one dayers) and that marto has reacted by saying "stuff it" and retired. This would make alot of sense because it was a bit of a shock retirement. i mean, we wouldn't have won the champions trophy without him, i'm not sure why he retired. so there must have been something to push him over the edge or give him the motivation to leave and something like this (being asked to step down from cricket, or being told that perth would be his last test) would make sense really.

i don't remember him making a press conference about it either? so he might've been sour (understandably) about it.

well miss you marto!

 

[goony]

Yeah about the all rounder thing, a true all rounder (not a batting all rounder or a bowling all rounder) like sobers or in today's game (to a certain extent): flintoff, kallis, pollock (although i might classify him as a bowling all rounder)...they're one of those really special players that don't come along too often (just like gilly as a wicket keeper batsman).

 

[BlackDragon]

I hope gilly fires in the last three test matches so that we can see his vintage form. It isn't the same watching the aussie side without our wonderful wicketkeeper batsmen blasting out a century in the most amazing of fashions. he hasn't been quite the same in the last 12 months but a few great scores and a century or two will turn everything around.

 

[timlay]

yeah. hope gilly gets a go before we 'declare' at like 01303018391203810101084108.

 

[HotShot]

Gilchrist is amazing when he is in form - just the way he smacks the ball. his batting style is unique.

 

[AntiJap]

I hope Panesar is a huge let down if he plays.

 

[BlackDragon]

I hope Panesar is a huge let down if he plays.

it'll screw england pretty much. they won't know what to do.

 

[HotShot]

it'll screw england pretty much. they won't know what to do.

Actually if England have nothing to lose - had they played Giles - everyone will be all over them on the coach and flintoff.

Had they played- Panesar and he played crap - it wouldnt be as bad (real bad for panesar).

Panesar is the type of spinner to trouble the aussies i think - he has some experience he bowled really well against the pakis (but the pakis are hardly any good at spin bowling).

But whatever if selected or not - the fact is England should have played him at Brisbane instead of Giles - this is what will hurt England.

This match is a must win for England - or draw the worst. With way warne is bowling - England will bat first. They will score 400 and they will score in at about 100 overs -120 overs. Declare. Then bowl Australia for whatever they manage toscore 500 600? who knows. The bat again and bat till for a suitable lead.

England must BAT first to stand a chance.

 

[BlackDragon]

i dislike what the wacca pitch and adelaide oval pitches have become: slow and boring. (as opposed to a spinners wicket and a paceman's delight respectively). it certainly makes for a boring first few days that heavily advantages the team that bats first. and a draw is pretty likely due to the fact that it is so hard to take wickets. last yr south africa batted 1.5 days for a draw and only lost 5 wickets.

 

[timlay]

apparently, martyn is retiring, making way for andrew symonds.

HMMPH. sifffff. i'd rather get a bowler. god knows how much our tail might waggg.

 

[BlackDragon]

apparently, martyn is retiring, making way for andrew symonds.

HMMPH. sifffff. i'd rather get a bowler. god knows how much our tail might waggg.

....
martyn has already retired and symonds has his spot for the next test. you can read the last two pages of this thread to see a discussion on his retirement.

 

[is2SWaNz]

I hope Panesar is a huge let down if he plays.

I'd like to see that happen!

I wonder how Symonds is going to play. He's only averaged 19 runs and his bowling is ok. hmmm... can Martyn 'unretire'? (if thats a word).