ATTN: AC-ists (2 Viewers)

[Chemical Ali]

Can you post hard evidence that employment levels in Australia would be higher ~right now~ if there was no minimum wage or corporate tax?

Pro tip: Friedman doesn't count

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

Can you post hard evidence that employment levels in Australia would be higher ~right now~ if there was no minimum wage or corporate tax?

Pro tip: Friedman doesn't count

Nope.

Can you post HARD evidence that they would be lower?

It's the same with every issue, neither side can prove what would happen under AC.

However, we can look at what has happened historically when societies move more towards free markets and respect for individual liberties, and the result is almost always win.

Conversely, the more we move away from freedom, the worse things tend to get in terms of metrics like GDP per capita, unemployment and life expectancy.

 

[SylviaB]

hard evidence, no

but its pretty damn obvious

no taxes --> more money they can use to expand operations, which requires more employees

no minimum wage laws --> For most companies it is in their best interests to hire, for example, 100 employees at $10 an hour than 50 employees at $20 an hour (with the skill level of employees being constant), with $20 being the minimum wage

and you can have a cry that these wages are too low, but this is simply the market determining how much these skills are actually worth

if you're so unskilled as to have a minimum wage job, then obviously your skills aren't exactly in short supply so its absurd to suggest you're entitled to some minimum amount of income

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

hard evidence, no

but its pretty damn obvious

no taxes --> more money they can use to expand operations, which requires more employees

no minimum wage laws --> For most companies it is in their best interests to hire, for example, 100 employees at $10 an hour than 50 employees at $20 an hour (with the skill level of employees being constant), with $20 being the minimum wage

and you can have a cry that these wages are too low, but this is simply the market determining how much these skills are actually worth

if you're so unskilled as to have a minimum wage job, then obviously your skills aren't exactly in short supply so its absurd to suggest you're entitled to some minimum amount of income

True as that may be, under AC, people would immediately break out into mob rule and warlord-ism (see somalia).

Also, an elite group of evil billionaires would form a giant, elaborate cartel (which never breaks down, because they can somehow trust each other despite their evilness) designed to jack up prices and screw workers down to starvation wages.

AND WHAT ABOUT THE ROADS!?~

 

[scuba_steve2121]

Can you post hard evidence that employment levels in Australia would be higher ~right now~ if there was no minimum wage or corporate tax?

Pro tip: Friedman doesn't count

man if the minimum wage was lower of course unemployment would go down. even socialists and Keynesian people admit that. the reason we don't do it is because apparently its unethical.

graph clearly shows that at P2 (minimum wage) it is above P1 (equilibrium wage or real wage) this causes unemployment. as D which stands for Demand goes up along the scale which means less demand for labour. while supply of labour has increased as at the new price of labour is has gone further up the scale. that little triangle created by lines D, S and P2 represents a surplus of labour aka unemployed people.

ok simply put the minimum wage means artificially created unemployment, as the employer is not willing to pay somebody $12 when their labour is only worth like $5

Thus we can conclude that if you lower or abolish the minimum wage employers will be more willing to hire as they don't have to pay you an artificially high amount as it would be detrimental to their business

this isn't a bias Austrian school explanation, it is just looking at the facts

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

man if the minimum wage was lower of course unemployment would go down. even socialists and Keynesian people admit that. the reason we don't do it is because apparently its unethical.

graph clearly shows that at P2 (minimum wage) it is above P1 (equilibrium wage or real wage) this causes unemployment. as D which stands for Demand goes up along the scale which means less demand for labour. while supply of labour has increased as at the new price of labour is has gone further up the scale. that little triangle created by lines D, S and P2 represents a surplus of labour aka unemployed people.

ok simply put the minimum wage means artificially created unemployment, as the employer is not willing to pay somebody $12 when their labour is only worth like $5

Thus we can conclude that if you lower or abolish the minimum wage employers will be more willing to hire as they don't have to pay you an artificially high amount as it would be detrimental to their business

Mate, what your fancy big city graph fails to take into account, is the cartels of evil rich people who CREATE UNEMPLOYMENT because they are EVIL.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

Mate, what your fancy big city graph fails to take into account, is the cartels of evil rich people who CREATE UNEMPLOYMENT because they are EVIL.

i was just saying minimum wage causes unemployment what does that have to do with evil cartels?

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

i was just saying minimum wage causes unemployment what does that have to do with evil cartels?

They are the real cause of unemployment. They could create jobs, but they prefer to hoard their money and watch the poor starve.

By creating fear of unemployment and starvation, they can then screw those that do have jobs down to even lower wages because they are terrified of being starving like the unemployed.

The rich are notorious for collusion and evil, and without some basic regulations the government would be replaced by a giant cartel that is answerable to no one.

 

[runoutofsleep]

oh dear

 

[SylviaB]

Also, an elite group of evil billionaires would form a giant, elaborate cartel (which never breaks down, because they can somehow trust each other despite their evilness) designed to jack up prices and screw workers down to starvation wages.

existence of competition be damned!

 

[Optimus Prime]

how can we post hard evidence of something that hasn't happened?

 

[funkshen]

When complaints about youth unemployment were all the rage back in the mid 90s, independent research showed (more than once) that a 57% cut in the youth minimum wage would be required to substantially expand labour market demand for youths. Similar research throughout the recent decades shows similar figures for award-wage recipients in the broader economy. Thus contemporary arguments for slashing award wages have little credibility in the minds of policymakers.

The focus has now shifted to the fact that award wage recipients are given "arbitrary" increases (such as the $26 per week increase they've just been given.) The problem is, the lowest paid generally experience the lowest wage growth - more specifically, their wage growth is not anywhere near equivalent to their productivity growth, reflecting the fact that they're all too easily replaced or intimidated. So the government steps in.

tl;dr no government lower wages greater inequality, focus now on dynamics of wage increases not HURR DERR MINIMUM WAGE SUPLEY DEMANED GRAPFS

 

[TacoTerrorist]

Jesus Christ. Capitalism is the greatest source of inequality, hardship, death, wage-slavery and is the worst single entity that exists on the planet. It is the ultimate legalised, barely-regulated greed. Humanity at its worst. Lowering the minimum wage or removing it altogether will lower unemployment, but at what cost? Do you awful people know what morality is? Fuck.

They are the real cause of unemployment. They could create jobs, but they prefer to hoard their money and watch the poor starve.

By creating fear of unemployment and starvation, they can then screw those that do have jobs down to even lower wages because they are terrified of being starving like the unemployed.

The rich are notorious for collusion and evil, and without some basic regulations the government would be replaced by a giant cartel that is answerable to no one.

Your sarcasm aside, there is a lot of truth in this. Corporations do not give a flying fuck about anything than watching their profits grow. If those fucking bastards could get away with it there would be children working in coal mines, and the rest of us working like slaves for a pittance. As I have iterated in another thread, capitalist greed is almost the sole cause of unemployment. They could create jobs, but there's no profit to be made in doing so, and thus people starve. Despite what you 'Anarcho-' Capitalists think, capitalism is not some saviour that allows everyone to reach their full potential in some awesome utopia. I would rather live in state capitalism than unregulated capitalism, because the state at least provides the citizenry with minor protection. Sick of dickheads trying to argue that giving a slew of greedy, heartless mass murderers free reign is beneficial in any way.

Capitalist: 'LOL my gold plated yacht is 3 days old, I need another one'.

Single Mother: 'My children can barely get an education and enough food on the plate because my asshole boss cut my wages to satisfy his never-ending greed'.

Libertarian Capitalist: 'Cut that man's taxes, yo!'.

EDIT: Anarcho-Capitalism is a huge misnomer. Anarchists stand for freedom, peace, mutual aid and equality. Capitalists stand for greed at any cost.

 

[Rothbard]

Bilderberg guys

yeahhhhhh

 

[Garygaz]

itt: armchair economists

oh and idiots

 

[SylviaB]

Jesus Christs

lol you're a moron

 

[TacoTerrorist]

^ I beg to differ sir. I guess the enemy of my enemy is still the fucking enemy.

 

[SylviaB]

^ I beg to differ sir. I guess the enemy of my enemy is still the fucking enemy.

the number one reason why the super rich get so rich: the government

on a free market they would be far less rich and far less powerful

 

[TacoTerrorist]

^ True, but the immorality of the capitalist system is still there.

 

[SylviaB]

morality is a load of shit so dont start


i support the free market for utilitarian reasons