Australian Politics (2 Viewers)

[boris]

openly gay. openly a bully. openly a shitcunt

 

[badquinton304]

openly gay. openly a bully. openly a shitcunt

Somebodys openly bitter.

 

[boris]

someone openly doesn't remember him but the discussion was openly open so i opened my open opinion of openess

 

[jb_nc]

Somebodys openly bitter.

lolllllllllllllll

yeah its paul keating

he's still tasting it from the 1996 election

 

[badquinton304]

someone openly doesn't remember him but the discussion was openly open so i opened my open opinion of openess

I did not have to been a teenager during his time as PM to remember him. There is 7:30 report (which he still appears on every now and then), youtube, late line, etc.
If you are not prepared to have a harsh (harsh as in accusations of bullying, homosexuality, "shitcunt") opinion argued against then do not present it in the first place. This is a news, current affairs and politics forum, there is even a thread that is arguement guide. What did you honestly expect?

 

[badquinton304]

lolllllllllllllll

yeah its paul keating

he's still tasting it from the 1996 election

Well I do have to agree that he is bitter, I would also be bitter and frustrated if the same thing happened to me. When ever an idea that is foreign enters Australia peoples heads implode. Galileo would have been bitter.

 

[Rafy]

Tony Stewart sacked from the NSW ministry
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/rees-dumps-stewart/2008/11/11/1226318638356.html

 

[katie tully]

wot sort of society do we live in, where a politician cannot grope/have sexual relations with his staff members

travesty

 

[spiny norman]

I did not have to been a teenager during his time as PM to remember him. There is 7:30 report (which he still appears on every now and then), youtube, late line, etc.

There's also Don Watson's Confessions of a Bleeding Heart, a great political memoir from which some of Keating's brilliance as Prime Minister can be grasped.

lolllllllllllllll

yeah its paul keating

he's still tasting it from the 1996 election

Good one, but I'm pretty sure he loathed John Howard well before 1996.

 

[Iron]

Political death is like another kind; the body keeps twitching once the head has been cut off

 

[Lentern]

I would not say Kevin Rudd was not a good speaker. I would agree that Turnbull is the better speaker out of the two, but they are both very good speakers. They both leave Howard sounding like a cave man in terms of speaking. However the only speaker that ever left me in awe in Australian politics would be Paul Keating, with the redfern address and the true believers speech.

Keating had a great speech written at Redfern but the delivery itself wasn't outstanding, he was much better in off the cuff responses than oratory. As a leader of the opposition and environment minister we haven't really gotten the chance to see real Oratory from Turnbull. Rudd's style is effective but hardly inspirational. Rudd's conversational style is very effective I think because he combines a very refined pitch and tone with some very colloquial expressions , it's guages interest and he's articulate enough to blurr bad points and made clear good ones.

Turnbull has a rare gift in then he is very articulate but not verbose. His tone is also quite polished so he seems sohpisticated but not so pompous as Rudd, he also works the body language very nicely although if I may say he overdoes the "taking off glassess and points with them emphatically."

Anyone who wants to see grand impressive oratory should try and get footage of some of Whitlam's post dimissal stuff. Not the famous one but the campaigning ones. A particularly good one I remember seeing went something like "Men and women of Australia, the future of Australian democracy rests entirely in your hands. You have a decision, do you want to empower unelected, unaccountable figureheads to decide on whims who your government will be? Or will you, the citizens of this nation determine for yourselves who your prime minister will be?"

 

[spiny norman]

Keating had a great speech written at Redfern but the delivery itself wasn't outstanding, he was much better in off the cuff responses than oratory.

Disagreed. Keating's speech-giving style, while perhaps not as flowery as some others, gave some emotional strength to the words - kind of Robert Kennedy-like.

Turnbull has a rare gift in then he is very articulate but not verbose. His tone is also quite polished so he seems sohpisticated but not so pompous as Rudd, he also works the body language very nicely although if I may say he overdoes the "taking off glassess and points with them emphatically."

Having seen his speech in Parliament today on Remembrance Day I did think it seemed a bit lofty. Given the success of Obama, I couldn't help but feel somewhat cynical about Turnbull suddenly erupting in such language and delivery.

Rudd's style is effective but hardly inspirational. Rudd's conversational style is very effective I think because he combines a very refined pitch and tone with some very colloquial expressions , it's guages interest and he's articulate enough to blurr bad points and made clear good ones.

I actually believe Rudd's speech making has been perhaps his most impressive attribute as Prime Minister. The apology, for example, was approached with much cynicism from a great many people, but few disagreed with it after the fact. It was a great speech, hit all the right notes and stressed the importance of the moment for those who'd been waiting a lifetime to see it. I wasn't convinced before the speech that an apology was necessary (though figured it inevitable) - but thought it so beautifully done and so heartfelt that I could in no way oppose it.

 

[Iron]

Rudd doesnt have a speechwriter. The Apology was worked on for a long time with heavy consultation, but a PM cant do that for every speech. He's crap as a result. The rememberance day speech today was woeful. Read like a HSC textbook -'Australia was apart of the Great War. There were 80,000 killed and 150,000 wounded. This was horrifying.' etc.

 

[Lentern]

Disagreed. Keating's speech-giving style, while perhaps not as flowery as some others, gave some emotional strength to the words - kind of Robert Kennedy-like.



Having seen his speech in Parliament today on Remembrance Day I did think it seemed a bit lofty. Given the success of Obama, I couldn't help but feel somewhat cynical about Turnbull suddenly erupting in such language and delivery.



I actually believe Rudd's speech making has been perhaps his most impressive attribute as Prime Minister. The apology, for example, was approached with much cynicism from a great many people, but few disagreed with it after the fact. It was a great speech, hit all the right notes and stressed the importance of the moment for those who'd been waiting a lifetime to see it. I wasn't convinced before the speech that an apology was necessary (though figured it inevitable) - but thought it so beautifully done and so heartfelt that I could in no way oppose it.

Um, I still think you're kind of blurring speaking style with speech writing. Keating did not write the redfern address and he also rehearsed it, his delivery was competent but imagine for a moment what Martin Sheen could have done with it opposed to Keating and I think it's difficult to call him an outstanding orator. Debater he was second to none and in one on ones with Kerry O'brien and the like he was dynamite but oratory was probably his weakest point speakingwise.

Again, Rudd's apology was scripted, admittedly by Rudd himself, but that's writing ability not speaking style. I thought although the content was poor Nelson actually spoke better at the apology, Rudd spoke well with a fantastic speech but I don't think the oratory itself was anything extraordinary.

You are right Turnbull can be a little lofty at times, but I don't see it as a major problem and he is by and by a good speaker.

On a slightly related point, what do all those apparently impressive orators have in common? Expensive suits. Turnbull loves his dark suit with a blue shirt and red tie, and it does form quite a nice combination. Rudd prefers his crisp black suit, white shirt and loud aqua tie. Keating mixed it up more, didn't really have a signature outfit but allways looked classy anyway. Just interesting that snappy dressers so often turn out to be good speakers.

 

[Lentern]

Rudd doesnt have a speechwriter. The Apology was worked on for a long time with heavy consultation, but a PM cant do that for every speech. He's crap as a result. The rememberance day speech today was woeful. Read like a HSC textbook -'Australia was apart of the Great War. There were 80,000 killed and 150,000 wounded. This was horrifying.' etc.

You don't need great speeches to be an effective politician, I'd even guess they probabl work the other way. There is sadly a reason that politicians have evolved into a grey, boring equivocator, trying to be all things to all people when running for office. It's what works. Speechwriters ultimately get too involved, and then policy begans becoming narrative stuff. And if you end up versing an incompetent hack than yeah it makes for great narrative, but as gooder story as Gallipoli is, you wouldn't make a battle plan based upon what happened there however admired it is.

Let's all take a moment to remember than Latham was mentored by Whitlam, won a decisive victory in the debate and did come up with some good lines like "ladder of opportunity".

 

[Rafy]

National Fuelwatch (Empowering Consumers) Bill 2008
National Fuelwatch (Empowering Consumers) (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2008
Negatived at second reading
Senate divided: Ayes 34; Noes 34


Excellent. Fuelwatch was a flawed policy which would have done more harm than good.

 

[Trefoil]

If it keeps the price of domestic petrol up, I'm all for FuelWatch failing.

Makes the average Joe pay more heed to alternative energy sources (even though there's such a tenuous link between the price of oil and the price of petrol these days - it's not at all a 'free market').

 

[Silver Persian]

Really looking forward to the Howard Years tonight. Should be good.

 

[Rafy]

Three federal polls released today. Economic problems are working in the government's favour, not against.

ACnielsen: 55/45
Galaxy: 55/45
Essential: 55/45

Don't forget The Howard Years on ABC1 tonight at 8.30pm

 

[Trefoil]

That's an amazing homogeneity between pollsters. I believe Newspoll's last poll also had the 55/45 breakdown.

I guess I'm used to American pollsters who have to distinguish between registered voters and likely voters. Australian ones don't need to because we have a superior voting model (compulsory voting).

Newspoll's last poll also put the Rudd vs Turnbull ratio at about 3:1 in Rudd's favour for preferred prime minister. That's almost as bad as Nelson did. You can partially blame that on the economy (although isn't Turnbull meant to be an economic pro?), but it seems that the Liberal brand in general isn't terribly popular right now.

Somebody tells me if anything interesting is actually said on The Howard Years. CBF watching.