Enteebee said:
I would disagree because even if it were just society telling them that it's wrong there is still a decent probability that as a free actor (as much as any of us are free actors) they would dislike what was done to them.
Why? I did specify the consensual and loving subset. Do you contend children can't consent? See below.
sthcross.dude said:
You've glossed over the main point, forget later psychological harm. CHILDREN DON'T ENJOY BEING MOLESTED BY ADULTS.
I already said consenting situations. You're free to argue that consent in children is an illusion, but blindly saying the equivalent of "all children dislike sex" only holds as "common knowledge" to prevent paedophilia (
and rightly so).
If you accept that children can consent to sex, but argue they aren't mature enough to do so meaningfully, then you're going to have to provide a basis for that. Stripping away societal expectations, you're left with what? That sex might cause psychological damage? How so, if such sex is loving, and consensual?
Your stance is inconsistent.
If they don't they are only animals. We kill them for food. If you want to make ridiculous statements like I have to accept pedophilia if I accept bestiality, then I will contend that if you don't accept bestiality, you can't accept killing animals for food.
Or at least not treat them in the cruel way we do to produce food cheaply (eg battery hens). We can get all the nutrition we need without meat and we could feed more people from the same land too. Meat is a luxury. We are putting animals through suffering from our pleasure. The only difference between bestiality and eating meat (assuming the animals don't like the sex) is the sexual element. It makes no difference to the animals. It's just an arbitrary value judgement.
I'm a vegetarian.
Graney said:
You don't form an attachment and relationship with your pets already? What is wrong with taking it one step further?
No, I don't. I am fond of my pets, and I feel empathy towards them, but I am fully aware there's no relationship or friendship there. It's fine to pretend there is, though - that's unlikely to stop me from seeking real friendship.
Bestiality on the other hand, is either the illusion of a relationship, or purely pragmatic. If it's the latter, I doubt that it'd also be 'consensual' because it's essentially just a 'tool' or 'object' to the person, which is a problem. If it's the former, then there's a problem, because that very likely precludes real relationships.
Homosexuality was only disclassified as a mental illness by the WHO in 1992.
Homosexuality never had a justification for being classified as one in the first place.